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They Reminisce Over You Podcast

Episode 30: Where My Girls At - '90s Female R&B Groups

Since we talked about our favorite male R&B groups of the '90s in the last episode, you know we had to do one for the ladies. We're talking about TLC, En Vogue, SWV and even some of the lesser known acts like Nuttin' Nyce and Sudden Change.

Transcript

Miguel: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You. I'm Miguel.

Christina: And I'm Christina. In the last episode, we talked about the era of '90s R&B groups, specifically the male groups. But today we're going to talk about the ladies. Ready to get into it?

Miguel: Yes, I am.

Christina: Let's do it.

Miguel: So if you missed the last episode, we talked about male R&B groups from the '90s, like you said. This time we're going to talk about the female R&B groups from the '90s. We talked about the high end acts. We talked about some of the lower end acts and the acts in between. So on that list of our top tier, we have groups like TLC, SWV, Destiny's Child, En Vogue. Tier two has, you know, Total, Xscape, 702. Then we get down to the, to the muck a little bit, where your MoKenStef's live.

Christina: Tier "who?"

Miguel: Yeah. That, that tier "who?" where you kind of forget who the hell they are.

Christina: Or maybe they just had one song, one hit.

Miguel: You ready to just get into it?

Christina: Yep. We're going to start at the top. Just like we did in the last episode.

Miguel: Well all right.

Christina: So your top tier was TLC, SWV, Destiny's Child and En Vogue. And also, I just wanted to remind, cause I don't think you said it, this is 1990 to 2000.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So some of these acts have gone past the '90s, but we're going to talk about that decade.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So those were the four you put in your tier one. And I'm going to start with a potential hot take.

Miguel: All right. We're coming out of the gate firing. Okay.

Christina: I initially agreed with you, but then as I was actually re-listening to all this stuff, I decided to put Destiny's Child into tier two.

Miguel: I'm okay with that.

Christina: And I'll tell you why. Okay.

Miguel: I have probably the same assessment.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: But I will let you explain when we get to it.

Christina: So who do you want to talk about first?

Miguel: Let's just get into TLC.

Christina: So TLC came out the gate in 1992 with Ooooooohhh…On the TLC Tip. And I loved them.

Miguel: I'm not surprised at that.

Christina: I used to wear all the baggy clothes and stuff, just like them and...

Miguel: Did you have condoms taped to your clothes too?

Christina: I did not because I was a teenager.

Miguel: They weren't much older than teenagers.

Christina: That's true. And I want it to be worldly and stuff and act like them wearing condoms didn't bother me. But I would not be wearing, walking around wearing condoms, but I did wear all those brightly colored clothing. And I remember I put my hair up in a bun all the time. My friends would be like, "oh my God you look like Left Eye!" Anyways, definitely when they came out, I loved them because they were fun. They were young. And, you know, I've mentioned before that, there was very much this empowerment kind of feel where it's like, it's the '90s, we're doing this, we're doing that. And it was nice to see women doing it.

Miguel: "Sisters are doin' it for themselves!"

Christina: Yes, "sisters doin' it for themselves." Which was a random joke we heard on Superstore. If you watch the show, you'll know what we're talking about. You don't watch the show. You need to watch the show. Anyways, back to TLC. This was the era too, of women wearing baggy clothing and just kind of more of a tomboyish style. I don't know, like I just loved them. I mean, me and a whole bunch of other people since they ended up being like, one of the biggest selling female groups out there.

Miguel: Yeah, of all time.

Christina: What did you think about them?

Miguel: I just thought they were fun. Like everything they did seem to be fun. They didn't take themselves too seriously. Again, the videos, you see little comments and things like this is Left Eye's cousin with one of the background dancers. So stuff like that just made them appealing. I wouldn't say they're my favorite group, but like I said, the music was fun.

Christina: Yeah. I feel like they would appeal more to women.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: It wouldn't be that surprising that men like them but as their popularity grew, they definitely started to appeal more to women.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: Yeah so the first album was definitely fun. And I think also just the style and the fashions of everything, just being really colorful at that time. And then when the second album came out, CrazySexyCool, they started to take on a little bit more of like a mature, more sexy vibe. And that's where we got "Creep." I just realized today when I was re-listening to it, that Phife is in the intro.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: I didn't even realize until he's like "Malik, the five foot freak..." I'm like, oh, that's Phife.

Miguel: You making that realization kind of like the Busta Rhymes "L.O.N.S. family tree" that you put together?

Christina: Yeah. I'm like lioness? What's that? So that was something that hit me today. I mean, I do remember Busta Rhymes on another interlude and Andre 3000 on "Something Wicked This Way Comes," which is also one of the songs that I love on this album. So those two I remembered, but completely forgot about Phife. I think it might be because of the popularity of the song, but I cannot stand "Waterfalls" anymore.

Miguel: You don't like "go, go, Jason Waterfalls?"

Christina: I do not like "go, go Jason Waterfalls." I can't remember exactly how I felt about it back then. I don't think I hated it, but I don't think I loved it, but these days I'm just like, skip. I can't do it.

Miguel: Oh man.

Christina: And because of that, I think that's where this shift happens in the third album FanMail. We talked about this with Usher, and I'm sure other people too, where your audience changes and then the music kind of changes.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: So FanMail is when we got the infamous "No Scrubs," which is why I said they're more for women because "No Scrubs" also launched "No Pigeons."

Miguel: "No Pigeons." Which is one of my favorite songs.

Christina: So a song that I do love off of FanMail is "Silly Ho."

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So I would like more "Silly Ho" and less "No Scrubs." Not that I, I do like "No Scrubs," but it just kind of took on this life of its own.

Miguel: So you want more "Silly Ho."

Christina: Yep.

Miguel: And less "Unpretty" too, I assume?

Christina: Oh yes, definitely. That's what I meant to say. More "Silly Ho," less "Unpretty." "No Scrubs" is that middle ground, where I'm cool with it...

Miguel: It's straddling the fence on both.

Christina: I forgot how much I love this song because I think I just thought of "No Scrubs," "Unpretty." And I was just like, ah, I don't really need to listen to this album. But when I pulled it up, I was like, yes, I forgot about "Silly Ho."

Miguel: Yeah, I listened to it earlier and was like, yeah, I can get with this. Something that I completely forgot about until I was watching the videos yesterday. But in the video for "Creep," Chilli hits a mean ass backspin and that just cracked me up.

Christina: Then she just posed at the end.

Miguel: Yeah, you got Left Eye walking on her hands behind her and she's doing some uprocking into a backspin.[1] I was like, that was kinda tight.

Christina: I don't know if you noticed this too, but in the "Baby Baby Baby" video, because that song Left Eye doesn't, there's no like rap or anything for her.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: So most of the video, she just has headphones on and she's just bopping around in the background, just doing laundry, dancing and walking back and forth.

Miguel: I'm not here. Do your thing.

Christina: Back to what you were saying, they just seem like they like to have fun. The majority of their videos are fun. They have some sultry ones and, I think, well, "Waterfalls" is their serious one and "Unpretty" they're serious one.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But for the most part, they're fun.

Miguel: Because in the last episode you said you don't like songs that have messages or too positive.

Christina: I do not.

Miguel: So that's why you don't like "Waterfalls."

Christina: Or "Unpretty." It's laying it on too thick for me.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: I like "Keep Ya Head Up," for example.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: I don't mind like, positive type songs, but when you lay it on a little too thick, it's just too much.

Miguel: Too much.

Christina: Yeah, so, can't do it. I mean, it's good for the people who need it, I guess, but for me I'm like, ugh.

Miguel: It makes you cringe too much?

Christina: Yeah, it's a little too Instagram inspirational posts for me.

Miguel: On that note, let's move on to En Vogue.

Christina: During this time, I remember just feeling like they were huge. At one point they grew to just be everywhere or at least everywhere in my world. I don't know how big they were outside of quote, my world.

Miguel: They were quite popular.

Christina: I thought so.

Miguel: Yeah. It was a quick run, but their highs were really high.

Christina: So their first album came out in 1990, Born to Sing. And what's interesting about En Vogue, couple things, is there's no lead singer. Like they're all fantastic singers and they pretty much sing lead equally. It doesn't feel like anyone sings more than the other.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: They don't seem like a group that was put together.

Miguel: Even though they were.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Which is weird.

Christina: But that's what I'm saying. They seem like they went to high school together or something, right?

Miguel: Right.

Christina: I found out a while ago, but I remember when I found out that they were a group that was just put together, I was like, how? But they sound so perfect together.

Miguel: That's what happens when you say, I want a group with four leads in it.

Christina: So Born to Sing came out with, I believe, "Hold On" was the first single. That was like, wow, who is this? Cause they just come out the gate with that a cappella. And then you got them in these little tight black dresses. And Cindy gives us a little Roger Rabbit.[2] They gave us some poses. And you're just like, who are these gorgeous ladies who also say so well, all four of them.

Miguel: Yeah, I was a fan from the beginning, but me just being a teenage boy, it was more about the visuals.

Christina: The tight dresses that I just mentioned?

Miguel: I was like, okay, I like what's going on here.

Christina: Little something for everybody.

Miguel: It was like, oh, I guess they can sing.

Christina: And they can, the thing is, now you know, they can't sing.

Christina: But I guess teenage Miguel was like "they're purrty."

Miguel: Yeah, that's all I was looking at at the time.

Christina: The thing about this album though, is you can definitely hear that transition from '80s to '90s since it came out in 1990. So it definitely sounds more dated than their subsequent albums. But "Hold On" is a classic. I liked "Don't Go" as well. I think it's the first song on the album, it wasn't a single, but it's called "Strange."

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And they're doing this like early ‘90s, late ‘80s style or rap but with like a British accent.

Miguel: I don't remember that at all. I'm going to have to check this out. Because the thing that stood out for me on the album that was like out of place, is them doing the quick cover of the "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy."

Christina: Hip hop, hip hop bugle boy.

Miguel: Like, wait a minute. That's random.

Christina: But I liked it.

Miguel: Because it goes back to what you were saying about them having like harmonies and being a group that everybody can sing in. So of course you would pull, go to a throwback like that.

Christina: It's weird, but it somehow works for them.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: You know how I was saying, I didn't like Boyz II Men leaning towards that sort of doo-wop sound.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: But I like it when En Vogue does it.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Which is weird because why would I like when they do it?

Miguel: Because they're women.

Christina: I guess so. I'm biased. Is that what you're saying?

Miguel: You're a man hater.

Christina: Women first!

Miguel: Basically.

Christina: Whatever it is, it works for them.

So Funky Divas came two years later, and this is where I feel that boom happened. I realized that they're the queen of aesthetics. Because they don't really dance. They sing very well. That little Roger Rabbit that Cindy hit in "Hold On" is probably the most choreo you're gonna get out of them. Most of it is like choreographed poses.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And some body rolls.

Miguel: That's all.

Christina: Every video during this album run and some after too, but especially this album run, it's almost like art. Just the, the make-up, the styling, the costuming. And all they're doing is like posing basically.

Miguel: Yeah, we're going to give you these vocals. And you're going to look at how pretty we are doing it. That's basically what it was.

Christina: Yes, All four of them are gorgeous, but it feels very artistic. And they're bringing that ‘60s girl group glamour a lot of the times too. "My Lovin' (You're Never Gonna Get It)," they have those little slinky, silver dresses[3].

Miguel: Right. Looking like The Supremes.

Christina: And "Give It Up, Turn It Loose" they're in the hair salon. It's very, I think ‘50s, ‘60s. I'm not sure exactly what that era is.

Miguel: I don't remember the video. I remember the song, but not the video.

Christina: Yeah. They're dressed up as, uh, I'm going to say ‘60s. And then you had "Giving Him Something He Can Feel." That's iconic. Those red dresses. Did you rewatch that video?

Miguel: I didn't.

Christina: Johnny Gill getting all hot and bothered up in the front seat.

Miguel: I didn't have to rewatch it because I remember it. Yeah, that video is right up here.

Christina: I remember arguing with my sisters over which one's the prettiest one, because how can you choose?

Miguel: Exactly. It just depends on the day.

Christina: Pretty much. And then you had "Free Your Mind"—

Miguel: I really didn't like that one too much.

Christina: I didn't like the song as much, cause it's not really my style, but I feel like that was the one that helped with their crossover appeal because it had more of a rock sound.

Miguel: Yeah, it was that, the—

Christina: And "My Lovin' (You're Never Gonna Get It)."

Miguel: That one, "Free Your Mind" and "Whatta Man."

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: With Salt-N-Pepa, that's the one that just kind of pushed them out there.

Christina: I guess like after that, Runaway Love is more of an EP. Cause there was just like, I think there was "Runaway Love," which I love, love, love that song. And then "Whatta Man," I think a couple of remixes or something.

Miguel: Yeah. It was like five years in between actual albums. And by that point they had kind of started to fall apart.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Which is funny because they had their biggest hit at this time. The one that was on Set It Off.

Christina: "Don't Let Go."

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: It was also included on their next album, which is called EV3. Cause even though Dawn was in that song, by the time this album came out, Dawn was out.

Miguel: One of her many times leaving.

Christina: Yeah. This is where things kind of also fell apart for me as a fan. This album is okay. I didn't like it as much as the other ones. I do love, love, love the song, "Whatever." And I like "Don't Let Go (Love)."

Miguel: I have never heard this album and I only know "Don't Let Go."

Christina: The video for "Whatever[4]" totally reminds me of what we always say about the aesthetics of American Horror Story.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Because they're basically in some kind of like crazy hospital, institution thing, but of course they're all fancy and stuff, right?

Miguel: Right.

Christina: I put in my notes did American Horror Story get inspired by this?

Miguel: It's possible.

Christina: This was from 1997. It's very much, um...horror chic?

Miguel: Okay. I'm gonna have to look into this cause I don't remember that at all.

Christina: So Dawn left the group and I'm fine with the three of them. But after that, they had like two members that would kind of come in and out I'm like, who is these people?

Miguel: And, not only that you would have Dawn coming in and out too. Because she came back twice and left twice.

Christina: And that's probably why the music kind of fell by the wayside because how you supposed to put out consistent music. Yeah. So that's En Vogue in a nutshell.

Miguel: The Canadian in you goes with En Vogue. [different pronunciation]

Christina: It's En Vogue?

Miguel: But the American says En Vogue. That's what it's always been.

Christina: What do they say? I'm guessing they're saying En Vogue.

Miguel: It's En Vogue.

Christina: En Vogue. All right. Well, if they say—

Miguel: You Canadians say En Vogue.

Christina: Well, if they say En Vogue, I will say En Vogue. All right So we've talked about En Vogue and TLC. That leaves us with SWV.

Miguel: Yes, Sisters With Voices.

Christina: Sisters With Voices, who are not sisters.

Miguel: They are not sisters, but, they got voices.

Christina: And they sound good together. So sisters, I guess. Sisters doin' it for themselves!

Miguel: There you go.

Christina: I finally got my joke off. All right.

Miguel: Oh man. Let's get back to SWV.

Christina: 1992. It's About Time. First album. I love this album.

Miguel: I can't say that I love this album. I liked a couple songs on it, but I won't say that I love it.

Christina: Well, there's your classics. "I'm So Into You" and "Weak." I prefer the "Anything" remix with Wu-Tang.

Miguel: Of course.

Christina: The "Anything" option—version on this album is slow. And it isn't bad, but it is not the remix.

Miguel: It's not bad, but it doesn't have Ol' Dirty Bastard on it.

Christina: It does not. There's "You're Always On My Mind." And one of my favorite songs, which is not a single is called "Give It To Me." And it's actually on my workout mix. There is a "Weak" remix called the "Bam Jams Jeep Mix."

Miguel: I'm sure I've heard it, but I can't think of it by name.

Christina: If you haven't heard it, I think you will probably like it because it kind of has that, "Computer Love" vocals kind of sound. You know back in—

Miguel: Talk box then?

Christina: Yes, that's what it's called. Because, you know, at that time, early to mid '90s, there's always something for the jeeps.

Miguel: Yeah everything was for the jeeps.

Christina: Had me wanting a car with no doors. But thanks to all these people, I wanted a Jeep so bad.

Miguel: I didn't.

Christina: I did. So yeah, I love this album. I can listen to it from beginning to end.

Miguel: I have a question for you.

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: So do you like "Right Here" or the "Right Here" remix?

Christina: The remix.

Miguel: Okay. I just wanted to make sure.

Christina: That I was on the right side of history?

Miguel: Exactly. It was a trick question.

Christina: Uh huh. Was there anything on the line if I answered wrong?

Miguel: I guess you won't ever have to find out.

Christina: You made the right choice too. So yeah, I think this was definitely one of my favorite albums actually, and pretty solid debut. Then we have a second album, New Beginning. And I know they're not the only ones doing this, but I find it hilarious that they have two very popular songs about being side chicks. And it's one of those things, again, as we have said, many times you sing along, you don't really think about it too much. But in "You're the One," my favorite part is when she's like, "and if she finds out, I don't know nothing."

Miguel: For some reason I always thought this was on the first album. I don't know why.

Christina: Maybe, because "I'm So Into You" is also about being a side chick.

Miguel: Maybe, I don't know.

Christina: In "I'm So Into You," I mean, right from the beginning, she's like, "there you go telling me that you love me, but boy, you know, that you belong to another girl."

Miguel: Hey, she was just putting it out there and letting everybody know what the stakes were.

Christina: The little, the bridge breakdown, whatever it's called. "You're not mine. I can't deny."

Miguel: They know. They know what the deal is. And we'll get into that a little bit later.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: With someone else. I'm not going to say who, but yeah.

Christina: It's one of those things you just sing along, you kind of don't really think about it. And then one day you're like, did I just say, "you're not mine?"

Miguel: You sure did.

Christina: Then we get Release Some Tension a couple years after that. 1997. I don't even remember the song "Lose My Cool." So the theme of this video is them dressed up as vampires.

Miguel: I don't remember the video, but I remember the song.

Christina: And your boy Redman is in it.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And he's dressed up like a character in What We Do in the Shadows.

Miguel: I definitely don't remember this.

Christina: So I'm thinking you might want to watch it just for funsies.

Christina: And then he sings the hook at the very end of the song, kind of badly because he's not a singer.

Miguel: Of course.

Christina: But it's very Redman. And of course, it's funny because that's how he is.

Miguel: Well, I'm definitely going to have to look it up if you got Redman dressed up.

Christina: Just to see him dressed up as a Bram Stoker character.

Miguel: Like a—

Christina: He got a little hat on and a cape. And they're dressed up as vampires too. It's a, interesting video.

Miguel: That sounds ridiculous. And I'm going to have to check it out.

Christina: And of course, we can't forget "Can We?" with your girl, Missy.

Miguel: Well, my favorite song on here though, is "Come Get Some" with E-40.

Christina: I thought you would like "Getting Funky" with Snoop.

Miguel: It's all about that E-40 for me.

Christina: With the D.O.C. sample.

Miguel: It's cool. But like I said, I liked the E-40 verse better. "I'm not a fax machine, but I got a lot of paper."

Christina: Well, a fan favorite off of this album is "Rain." And I know people love this song. And I guess that always surprised me because me personally, it's not one of my favorite SWV songs.

Miguel: I actually like it.

Christina: I do like it, but it's not in my top tier, but you and a lot of other people really like this song. So I guess I'm in the minority.

Miguel: You are. You gotta come over to this side.

Christina: Yep.

[music break]

Miguel: So I guess we can move on down a level to tier two.

Christina: All right. So tier two. Let's start off with Destiny's Child so that I can explain why I moved them from tier one to tier two.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: So initially I had them in tier one because of their impact basically. But their first album came out in 1998, so they squeaked in right at the end. And that's why I moved them to tier two, because I would probably be more comfortable putting them in tier one, if we were talking about the 2000s. But right now I see them as the little sisters of SWV, En Vogue, TLC, and whoever else came before them.

Miguel: I get it and I agree with it, but their second album, it basically set the stage for everything that happened in the 2000s, if that makes sense. Which is why I had them in the top tier. Because even though only had the two albums and they came out in ‘98 and ‘99, because that second album was so big, I felt that it would have to be in that top tier. But I understand why you would put them in the second tier.

Christina: I don't disagree, but I'm still sticking with my assessment just cause I'm looking about impact in the '90s.

Miguel: Yeah, I get it. But just looking at the track listing here, "Bills, Bills, Bills," "Bugaboo," "Jumpin' Jumpin'," "Say My Name," all that stuff. Just from the second album alone. That's kind of hard to beat.

Christina: It is. Because those were big hits.

Miguel: Yeah. And I have En Vogue in the top tier and they only have three albums in the '90s as well. So two versus three.

Christina: You can keep them in tier one.

Miguel: I'm okay with moving them out of tier one. I could be swayed to go in either direction.

Christina: I'll put them in tier one for the 2000s, definitely.

Miguel: I can go either way.

Christina: I mean, it's a technicality. They are '90s, but it's right at the end.

Miguel: I get it. I get it. I respect it. Tier two, they stay.

Christina: But while we're kind of on the topic of the second album, so you had scrubs or "No Scrubs," and then you have this album with "Bills, Bills, Bills," "Bugaboo." It was, I think this era of, which is why we have all these men doing podcasts about high value women and stuff. Cause this was when women flat out said, give me money. Pay my bills. The funny thing about "Bills, Bills, Bills" is she's talking about how this man is using her money and she just wants him to pay her back. But if you are a problematic male, all you hear is her saying, "can you pay my bills? Can you pay the telephone bills?" It's like, no, no, no, no, no. She's not asking him to pay her bills. She's asking him to pay his own bills that she's already put money on, which is different.

Miguel: It is. It's not the same thing.

Christina: But I think how these songs are more overtly, you need to give me money, you need to pay your bills. You need to pull your own weight. Whereas the early '90s, I think it felt more like I'm going to uplift myself. Like in '90s, I'm not going to put up with this anymore. I'm gonna, you know, be strong and educated or whatever, right? But then around this era, it's like, no, you are going to give me this. You're going to give me that.

Miguel: 'Cause that's the downside of being a strong, independent woman you got an ain't shit dude at home who don't want to do anything. It's like, you went out and did all this stuff because sisters are doing it for themselves and you taking care of business.

Christina: He hasn't caught up yet.

Miguel: He hasn't caught up. He just sitting on the couch and doing nothing.

Christina: So he gonna and come back and be like, no pigeons, please.

Miguel: And I can't blame them because they kept them around. So if you gonna let a dude use your credit cards and drive your car while you at work, driving around in your Maxima, picking up other women, that's on you, don't blame him.

Christina: Well, he doesn't know he shit though.

Miguel: That's true.

Christina: Because he's like, oh, you have the nerve to ask me to put my half in on the rent?

Miguel: That's a whole different layer. But still.

Christina: I got to work on my dreams, girl.

Miguel: I got this album coming out.

Christina: ‘Cause I remember Me and this guy was listening to "Bills, Bills, Bills" together. I remember he just said "ugh, prostitutes." And he was so disgusted.

Christina: And I was like, excuse me?

Miguel: That's quite a leap.

Christina: I'm like, obviously you haven't listened to the whole song.

Miguel: Obviously not. He's only hearing the hook.

Christina: Prostitutes! So I'm sure he was all over "No Pigeons."

Miguel: Of course. So was I, but only for the joke factor.

Christina: I liked "No Pigeons" too, it's hilarious.

Miguel: Exactly.

Christina: Even, um, not "No Pigeons." What was the one that came before? "Cheapskate." "You ain't getting nada from us."

Miguel: Exactly.

Christina: It was just funny.

Miguel: They had the market cornered on that.

Christina: Unfortunately for them, sidebar, it was too cornered because they couldn't get out of that pigeon hole they put themselves in.

Miguel: Exactly.

Christina: No pun intended.

Miguel: Yeah you did.

Christina: No, I just caught it.

Miguel: All right.

Christina: Okay. We're not here to talk about the men. But I do think that just listening to the music now between "No Scrubs" and these songs. Like the issues we see play out on the Twitter timeline every day.

Miguel: Is because these people were raised by these songs. That's why.

Christina: And they, but then they just hear the pay my bills, but not the I'm tired of paying for us. That's why I'm telling you that. And the other side is like, quit asking me to do stuff.

Miguel: Exactly. The thing I find funny about Destiny's Child is the alliteration in the song titles. Did you really have to have "No, No, No" And "Bills, Bills, Bills?"

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: And "Jumpin' Jumpin'."

Christina: But you know what? I think somebody mentioned this too with Rihanna. Like her biggest hit was "Umbrella," ella, ella, ella.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: So I think there's something about this repetition and maybe that's what Destiny's Child is doing is that it creates like an ear worm or something. So I don't know, maybe there was, a purpose for that.

Miguel: I can't argue against it, so I'll have to go with it.

Christina: Either way. It worked because these were huge hits.

Miguel: It was.

Christina: And then as I've said already, that shift happened in the following album, which we won't talk about too much because now these are in the 2000s.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But that's the, we're a worldwide pop group kind of music now.

Miguel: But before we go on. Here's the problem that I have with Destiny's Child and their ages, and just being younger than me. "Jumpin' Jumpin'."

Christina: I know what you going to say.

Miguel: "Ladies, leave your man at home. The club is full of ballers and their pockets full grown. And all you fellas leave your girl with her friends, because it's 11:30 in the club is jumpin' jumpin''."

Christina: Yeah, 11:30.

Miguel: Ain't no club jumping at 11:30.

Christina: Definitely not.

Miguel: And there's definitely no ballers in there—

Christina: Pockets full grown.

Miguel: With fully grown pockets at 11:30.

Christina: Definitely not.

Miguel: This is a song written by someone—

Christina: Beyonce.

Miguel: Who was 19-20 years old.

Christina: Actually, I don't know if she wrote that one, but it's possible.

Miguel: I have no idea who wrote it, but it's obviously somebody who hasn't been into a club because the club is not jumpin'—

Christina: Is never jumpin' at 11:30

Miguel: People were still getting in for free at 11:30.

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: So that song is a lie. There's no club that's jumpin' at 11:30. Even the 18 and over spots are not jumpin' at 11:30. And there's definitely nobody in those clubs whose pockets are full grown. That's all.

[music break]

Christina: So that's Destiny's Child. I'd say another tier two that's high up on tier two is Xscape.

Miguel: Uh, high?

Christina: For me? Yeah.

Miguel: For you. That's pushing it—actually, yeah, because tier two...I really don't have anything after tier one. Everything is kind of mixed in together when it comes to tier two. Nothing stands out.

Christina: I'm thinking maybe because with the girl groups, I feel like their music probably doesn't have as much crossover appeal between men and women as male groups do. Does that make sense?

Miguel: Yes. That and groups tend to do "girly" type stuff. If that makes any sense? Like we're doing–sisters are doing it for themselves! For the fifth time.

Christina: Yep. Is that gonna have to be the name of this episode?

Miguel: We might have to change the name of the episode.

Christina: Well, what song is that?

Miguel: When it comes—

Christina: It's by who?

Miguel: It's Aretha Franklin and the Eurythmics. But—

Christina: You're not going to be like a 24 year old man listening to women's empowerment basically.

Miguel: But if you listen to a solo female singer, that translates better. Because I have no problem listening to Mary J Blige.

Christina: You love Mary J Blige.

Miguel: I do. But am I listening to Xscape? No, I'm not.

Christina: My argument for Xscape being high on the tier two list is because they actually have elements of what we were saying about En Vogue.

Miguel: Yeah. That's true.

Christina: Because they have no lead singer and they're all equally strong singers.

Miguel: Even Tiny.

Christina: So we used to watch T.I. And Tiny's Family Hustle, like the first few seasons. And Tiny has a funny way of talking.

Miguel: Yes that's putting it mildly.

Christina: You forget that she is a really good singer.

Miguel: Like, why does this girl who talks like she got marbles in her mouth sing like this?

Christina: It's like, wow, who's this angel? They have no lead singers, but they have four strong singers.

Miguel: Well, I'd say three.

Christina: Kandi is give or take.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: It depends on the song. She can—

Miguel: It could go either way with her.

Christina: It depends on the song. I think there might be like, ranges that she should probably stay out of.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But when she does, she does. Like, my favorite song of theirs is actually not on any of their albums. It's on the Love Jones soundtrack. It's "In The Rain" and Tiny is singing most of it, but Kandi has one verse. So that's a song where her voice really shines in that one. And then they harmonize where all four voices just blend together. So I put them high up on the list because of the reasons I just mentioned. But a lot of it, I kind of almost realize it's different when you listen to all of it in such a short amount of time, rather than like an album here, an album there.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: Okay. So I tried to convince you with Xscape. It didn't work.

Miguel: No.

Christina: But there are others in tier two. 702? That's not gonna work for you either.

Miguel: No.

Christina: I already know.

Miguel: No. Even though—

Christina: I think that might be a little too young for you. Are they young?

Miguel: No. I don't know what it is. It's not the age.

Christina: I don't know.

Miguel: Because they're like my age.

Christina: Oh okay.

Miguel: So that's not it.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: It just didn't connect with me at all.

Christina: It just didn't work for you. I've mentioned this in the last episode with the duet they did with Subway and I said something about when they had four members.

Miguel: Yep.

Christina: I knew that they pared it down to three, but all this time, I didn't realize that the two that stayed were sisters.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And not only that, the one that got booted was the younger one's twin sister.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: How does that feel? So apparently Michael Bivins didn't like her voice.

Miguel: Yeah, it was like, she can't sing so.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: We're gonna swap these two out, put two new ones in and then the other one left.

Christina: Yes. That's gotta be a little messy.

Miguel: I would assume so.

Christina: At Thanksgiving.

Miguel: Maybe not. Maybe they let her tag along on tour or whatnot.

Christina: The two sisters ended up on BET Presents The Encore, which we are dying to watch.

Miguel: Yeah, we need to track this down.

Christina: If you don't know, BET Presents The Encore is a reality show and they're just bringing back all these '90s girl groups, certain members, to try to create a big girl group, which just sounds like a mess.

Miguel: Yeah, it sounds horrible, but great at the same time.

Christina: So it's those two, it's Keely from 3LW. Pam from Total. And…

Miguel: I don't remember, I just know it's quite the list.

Christina: Nivea I think? Yeah. I'm pretty sure it was Nivea cause I was like, she was never even in a group.

Miguel: I don't remember.

Christina: Anyways. It sounds amazing. And I want to see it. We've seen a couple clips.

Miguel: I want to see it.

Christina: And the clips I've seen have been great. I need to see the rest of this show.

Miguel: Yeah, I need to watch this.

Christina: Well, I did mention Pam. So let's talk about Total.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: What are your thoughts on Total? See you can get into Total.

Miguel: This is what I can get into. The other stuff that we've talked about in this level. Not so much.

Christina: Because Total is basically Mary, in group form.

Miguel: Yeah, exactly. This I could work with.

Christina: Right. What about Brownstone?

Miguel: They can sing. Like, vocally they sound good, but it just wasn't for me.

Christina: There's really only two songs. I liked, obviously, "If You Love Me" and they did a cover of "I Can't Tell You Why."

Miguel: Yes, they did.

Christina: And I really liked that.

Miguel: Yeah. I remember that now. I completely forgot about it when I was listening to them earlier, because I only watched the video.

Christina: Okay. What about Jade?

Miguel: Jade was okay. Like they weren't great, but they weren't bad either. They were just kind of there in my opinion.

Christina: I liked them, but they are not at the top of tier two. But if you talk about '90s girl groups, they definitely have to get a mention though.

Miguel: Yeah. Cause it's like we were talking about in the last episode where you have groups that are kind of copies of another group. And then that group becomes a copy of the one ahead of them. So they're not as good as the one that they're, the original one's trying to copy.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: Jade is in that mix.

Christina: I love "Don't Walk Away." There are other songs that I like, but that one's the strong one for me. The other ones is like, oh, I like it. But if I don't hear it anytime soon, I'll be okay.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Aside from them being like, pretty and they can sing, but there's nothing that distinct about them.

Miguel: Yeah they didn't stand out.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: You got to do things to stand out.

Christina: Sisters doing it for themselves!

Miguel: No.

Christina: I can't stop saying it now. All right, one more. There's one more in this tier that I want to talk about. Allure.

Miguel: See, here's the thing with Allure. I didn't like them but, this is–okay, here's a Miguel hot take.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Actually, this is more of a conspiracy rather than a hot take.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: So right before this album came out is when Mariah started dipping her toe into like her Black side with the remixes and whatnot.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: And the fact that she's singing background on the first single and she helped produce it as well.

Christina: And did some songwriting.

Miguel: She wrote some songs for it. I think that this was her testing, whether or not it would work.

Christina: Hmmm.

Miguel: Because doing the song with Nas, that's Mariah saying, all right, I want to do a song with Nas, but I need to see if this shit works first.

Christina: Because at this point she had created a label, Crave. And they were signed with her.

Miguel: Yeah. So I'm thinking this was like Mariah's test kitchen. It was like I'm going to push these songs over here with them.

Christina: And see how it works.

Miguel: See if it works and then what it does when my next album comes out, it's a little more urban than the Mariah we knew before.

Christina: Right. Because her record label did dissolve after this.

Miguel: And we know what Mariah is into. I can see her wanting to do a song with Nas, but—

Christina: At the time she was still transitioning.

Miguel: The label was like, we can't let you do that. So this was Mariah's test kitchen. See if it works.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Like, all right, I'm going all in with this nigga shit. So that's my theory.

Christina: I had not thought about this conspiracy theory, but the way I summed up this album was this is Mariah Carey in group form. Not only do you just actually hear her in the background vocals, it sounds like Mariah Carey, especially "Last Chance." That is Mariah right there.

Miguel: See.

Christina: But I loved this album. It's not available for streaming[5], but you can get some songs on YouTube.

Miguel: That's where I saw the videos.

Christina: And we have the CD, or I have the CD.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I don't know if you have a copy.

Miguel: I don't.

Christina: But I have a copy. But I love this album. I love "Head Over Heels." I love "No Question." I love their cover of "All Cried Out" with 112 and I love "Last Chance." Well, that's all I had for tier two.

Miguel: Okay. Me too.

Christina: Okay. So let's to tier who?

Miguel: This is where it gets sketchy.

[music break]

Christina: All right.

Miguel: So unlike the last episode where the majority of the people in the tier who? were people that I actually liked, but just kind of forgot about.

Christina: Uh huh.

Miguel: For this group it's like, "who dis?"

Christina: Well, there's people you know in this list.

Miguel: There's still some people that I know, but the majority of them were like, why do I even know who this person is?

Christina: All right. You know Blaque.

Miguel: Yes. I do know Blaque, which is a knockoff of TLC. Which is why I didn't enjoy it.

Christina: It's understandable because Left Eye put them together. But we cannot talk about Blaque without talking about the "Bring It All To Me" remix version.

Miguel: Here you go.

Christina: With JC from *NSYNC. I will never get over it. You got JC from *NSYNC, *NSYNC, right?

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: He sings, "I'm so for real. Are you feeling my Timbs, my baggy jeans, my thug appeal?"

Miguel: Yeah okay JC.

Christina: I mean, I still love this song. I laugh every time I hear it, but can live with it. And as one YouTube commenter said, "I'm only here ‘cause I'm feeling JC's Timbs, his baggy jeans, and his thug appeal."

Miguel: Oh man.

Christina: But that gets me every single time.

Miguel: Yeah the thing I remember about them is the line "sugar pie, honey bunch, if you're not busy, take me to lunch."

Christina: Oh, yeah. "If you're not busy, take me to lunch."

Miguel: It was like nah, I can't do this.

Christina: "Boom like an 808." I like that song too.

Miguel: This is like, see, that's the copies that I'm talking about. Like, I don't need this. Just give me TLC.

Christina: I do like Blaque. I wouldn't mind putting them at the bottom of tier two, but I also don't mind leaving them here either.

Miguel: Yeah, that's fine. That's fine.

Christina: There are songs that I like, but I don't have strong feelings about them.

Miguel: Well, here's another one that you might have some feelings about, Zhané.

Christina: Well, there are duo. I mean, I guess that counts, they're more than one.

Miguel: It counts, it's more than one person.

Christina: I didn't even think about them.

Miguel: See I like them.

Christina: Oh, I love Zhané.

Miguel: But the problem with Zhané is you can only listen to so much of it. And I guess, that's why their career wasn't that long.

Christina: Uhhhhh...

Miguel: Let me explain.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Because the majority of the songs that they sing, they sing together. You can only listen to that so much. Like the choruses and hooks, they're singing together at the same time. And that just gets kind of old after awhile.

Christina: I guess. I don't know. I love 'em.

Miguel: Like it was a good gimmick when they were doing it. Like, can you imagine them doing this for six, seven albums?

Christina: I would have to hear it for six, seven albums.

Miguel: It's kinda—

Christina: To see if I get tired of them cause I like them.

Miguel: I like them too, but it just seems really gimmicky.

Christina: I never even thought of it that way.

Miguel: Das EFX with the "iggeties." You can only ride that bus for so long. Because I was listening to "Groove Thang" earlier. I'm like, it's so annoying that they're singing the lyrics and the chorus together.

Christina: You know, what's funny considering they have a song called listen to the vibes. Their music is vibes.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Because it sounds very pretty.

Miguel: Yes it does. And like I said, I like it, but I don't like too much of it.

Christina: Would you like to hear some vocals?

Miguel: Well, they would do it. Like on uh, "Hey Mr. DJ," there are sections where one would sing, and then the other would sing and then they sing the chorus together. But like "Groove Thang," they're singing the entire song together.

Christina: You know what? I even noticed that. I'm going to have to go back and listen to, at least my favorite songs and just kind of see what they're doing. Cause I love, "Sending My Love" and hey, uh, not "Hey, Mr. DJ." There's another like DJ song, but I just forgot what it's called now.

Miguel: I can't think of it, but I know what you're talking about.

Christina: You know what I'm talking about.

Miguel: And like I said—

Christina: "Request Line."

Miguel: Yeah. Like they're singing together all the time.

Christina: I will have to go back and listen to it. It didn't even occur to me since there's only two of them. And like, is that a group?

Miguel: Yeah, I consider that a group even though it's a duo, technically. I'm going as group.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: But that's my one complaint about them.

Christina: Okay. Now we getting down to the weeds.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Which I feel mean that I just said that, but uh...

Miguel: Somebody's got to live there.

Christina: Kut Klose.

Miguel: Yep. They definitely in the lower end of this tier.

Christina: What about your girls, MoKenStef?

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: That name, they tried to do a Jodeci.

Miguel: It didn't work.

Christina: It didn't. MoKenStef sounds very strange.

Miguel: It does. It sounds like a monster. Sounds like a monster or an illness. You got MoKenStef.

Christina: Ew, you got MoKenStef!

Miguel: And this is what I was referring to when you were talking about SWV with the songs with cheating.

Christina: Yep.

Miguel: This is terrible.

Christina: Yeah. the SWV songs, I don't mind the cheating of aspect of that song. But this one? "He's mine. You may have had him once but I got him all the time." Don't be so proud of that girl.

Miguel: And she really is. And like just this YouTube comment said, "this gotta be the most catchy, low class song of all time." I agree. I'm not going to say it's catchy—

Christina: I think it's catchy.

Miguel: Or that I enjoy it.

Christina: People know this song.

Miguel: People know the song and the track is, it's got the same sample as "Knockin' The Boots" and "Keep Ya Head Up."

Christina: Oh. So it's familiar

Miguel: The Zapp, "Be Alright." So that kind of helps sell it too.

Christina: It's a familiar sound.

Miguel: Come on.

Christina: Yeah. She's way too proud to be like, oh, "you had him once, but I got him all the time." because the one who—

Miguel: You had him last night.

Christina: The one that had him once is probably SWV. See, the thing about SWV is they're like, yeah, I know he's got a girl, but I just really like him, so whatever. Whereas this one seems, you know, you're wasting your time fighting with the girl.

Miguel: Yeah. See you trying to pin it on SWV. And I always imagined that it was Meshell Ndegeocello.

Christina: I completely forgot about that song. But it was in one of those playlists that you sent me.

Miguel: That's how I saw it.

Christina: And I completely forgot about this take down.

Miguel: "He wasn't last night.[6]"

Christina: I love that song so much. Because she's so callous. "He wasn't last night."

Miguel: I'm just saying. "If that's your boyfriend, he wasn't last night."

Christina: That's not what he told me. So that's MoKenStef. Do you have anyone else you want to add? Because I have some randoms that you probably have never heard of.

Miguel: Same here.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Like when I said there are duds, this is the dud category here. And we talked about them earlier.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Nuttin' Nyce is my first one with "Froggy Style."

Christina: I do not remember that song.

Miguel: That song is so bad.

Christina: The only Nuttin' Nyce song I know is "Down for Whatever." And it was on the Low Down Dirty Shame soundtrack.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And I like it. It's not that special but I like it.

Miguel: It isn't.

Christina: But I do not remember this "Froggy Style" song.

Miguel: "Froggy Style." There's also Sudden Change.

Christina: I don't know who that is.

Miguel: With "Coming On Strong" and "Nodd Your Head." Again, these are groups that I shouldn't even know, but somehow I do. And just like the comment on YouTube said it's because it was played on The Box all the time. That's probably why I know these songs.

Christina: Whereas I didn't have The Box.

Miguel: There you go. There's one more that I kind of want to mention, but I'm not going to mention it because "the nigga who shall not be named" is a part of it.

Christina: Changing Faces.

Miguel: But I have them on my list. I have some comments that I'm going to reserve until I hit stop and I'm only going to talk to you about. Sorry, listeners. You don't get to hear my opinion on—

Christina: Changing Faces.

Miguel: This Changing Faces song, but I have opinions.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: Opinions, and another theory. I might reveal it one day, but today's not that day.

Christina: All right. Well, I have some to add. These are not duds.

Miguel: Willie Max?

Christina: No, I don't even know…who?

Miguel: Exactly. That's why they're in tier "who?" See all of these I, when I listened to it, I remembered seeing the videos.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: But on the list, like who the fuck is Willie Max?

Christina: I don't know who that is.

Miguel: You're not missing anything.

Christina: Actually, so one I'm going to mention, I was actually surprised, we talked about this, I don't know, a week or two ago. I was surprised he knew who they were, but I guess it's because of who they're associated with. Y?N-Vee.

Miguel: "Y?N-Vee, SCC are my homies."

Christina: Yeah so—

Miguel: "Never come wack on an old school track."

Christina: Yep, ol' Montell Jordan shouting out Y?N-Vee and, you know, I never, probably because I try so hard not to listen to that song.

Miguel: You never noticed?

Christina: I'd never even noticed that he shouted them out.

Miguel: He sure did.

Christina: But they had this song called "Chocolate." And I love the song because of the sample. It uses the, uh Rick James, uh which song was it? Uh "Mary Jane." So it uses the "Mary Jane" sample. And if you want to see women with very strong abs and crisp body rolls, you need to watch this video[7]. And they were going hard.

Miguel: I didn't watch the video.

Christina: Oh, yes. They have these amazing abs and these body rolls that they're doing are extremely crisp. And they were going real hard with that sort of like gangster girl look where they have, I think they might be wearing like Dickies or something close to that, they got the sports bras with the panties out. So they get to keep it a little feminine

Miguel: I remember seeing it in my head, I didn't watch it this time.

Christina: There's another group which just randomly popped into my head not that long ago, actually. And then I was like, I'm going to note this down cause I feel like this is going to come up.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Elusion.

Miguel: I don't know Elusion.

Christina: They were two sets of twins, hence, Elusion. They had one song that I remember used to play on BET all the time, "Reality." It's catchy, but it was very gimmicky because—

Miguel: I don't remember it at all.

Christina: You need to look at the video too[8]. You have these two sets of twins and then in the video, the way it's filmed, it takes you a moment to be like, oh, there's actually two of each of them. And not just like, oh, we're just going to do like a video where we make duplicates.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: But you're like, oh, there's four of them. And they're both two sets of identical twins.

Miguel: I have no idea what you're talking about.

Christina: Okay. So I can't be all into '90s R&B without loving Blackgirl who has a song called "I'm a '90s girl."

Miguel: Of course.

Christina: So, gotta love that.

Miguel: No I don't.

Christina: Because I'm a '90s girl. You're not a ‘90s girl.

Miguel: I am not a '90s girl, at all.

Christina: But I like that song. Um...can't say I know anything else. There was also this other group called For Real.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: There's one song that I love love love. It's called "Like I Do."

Miguel: I didn't listen to that when there was another one that I found—

Christina: On the Waiting To Exhale soundtrack? Nope?

Miguel: But I don't remember it now.

Christina: "Love Will Be Waiting At Home?"

Miguel: No.

Christina: Oh.

Miguel: There were two different ones that I found on YouTube earlier.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: It was like, oh yeah, I remember these videos and it's gone from my memory again.

Christina: So they had "Love Will Be Waiting at Home" on the Waiting To Exhale soundtrack. But I really like, "Like I Do." They're doing this ‘50s girl group vibe in that one too. And the video[9] and stuff is filmed that way. So it's really cute. I think so. I don't know if you'll like it. Two more groups I want to mention. I just want to throw a Sista out there because Missy was in it. I had no idea who they were other than I knew that they were part of DeVanté's Bassment Crew.

Miguel: I remember the video getting played.

Christina: Yeah we talked about this in the Missy episode. And I didn't know who Missy was at the time. I just probably you saw it in Word Up! Magazine or something. And the last one I want to, bring up is Vybe.

Miguel: I definitely don't know Vybe.

Christina: So I only know one song, uh which is not available for streaming, but it is on YouTube[10]. It's called "Warm Summer Daze." And the reason why I like the song, which is no surprise to you because the sample they use is the same sample as Rappin' 4-Tay's, "Playaz Club."

Miguel: I don't know this song at all.

Christina: It's called "Warm Summer Daze" and days is spelled D-A-Z-E.

Miguel: Of course it is.

Christina: And vibe is spelled V-Y-B-E.

Miguel: Of course it is.

Christina: It came out in 1995. So you know, I like it when my R&B has familiar hip hop sound, so, the Rappin' 4-Tay song. You got the same sample, but in a kind of Allure type. They're like the next level down from Allure.

Miguel: Yeah. See that's where I put For Real as well. They were another Allure clone, but lower on the scale.

Christina: So that's pretty much all I have for tier who? You have anything else you want to add?

Miguel: Nah. If anybody wants to check out Nuttin' Nyce, "Froggy Style."

Christina: "Froggy Style."

Miguel: Please do.

Christina: I guess.

Miguel: Thank me later.

[music break]

Miguel: All right. So what we're going to do now is you're going to tell me your favorite song, album, and video from this era.

Christina: So I'm going to do what I did for the men's. And I'm actually going to say album first because picking one album was a little bit easier. So I'm going with SWV, first album, It's About Time. And again, pretty much for the same reasons as me picking my choice for the men. It encompasses what I loved about the '90s. So, they were like an updated sort of R&B sound. And they had a little bit of that hip hop swagger and stuff, but then they still sang ballads and then they had some uptempo songs and it just, it sounds very '90s. And so for me, as much as I loved En Vogue and TLC, I think for me, SWV captures the essence of what I remember most about girl groups at that time.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Like En Vogue is in their own category and even TLC, I guess, with their pop success too put them in a different category. Then everyone else's somewhere in the SWV category, I guess.

Miguel: It's girl gumbo.

Christina: Yeah. So that's my pick for album. For songs I decided not to pick any SWV songs, I can't pick one song again. It's just too hard. So I'm going with a hodgepodge. So there's "Kissing You" from Total. "Last Chance" from Allure. Because if we go with your, theory, "Last Chance" gave us a peek into new Mariah Carey. And TLC's "Baby, Baby, Baby" because I like it.

Miguel: That's fair.

Christina: And for videos, I'm going with a cross between TLC again, because, "Baby, Baby, Baby," they made me think that school, university, it was going to be so much fun. And as you were saying about how TLC just seemed fun, like this video kind of shows that. And "Creep" with those silk pajamas that everybody loved, in those colors. And also I've mentioned this already, the Funky Divas era of En Vogue, just the visuals for a group that doesn't dance or kind of like do a lot of performance. They're not out there like Janet Jackson.

Miguel: They're not. They're like, uh, what's her name we saw on TV the other day? Peggy Lee.

Christina: Well, no.

Miguel: Just give you a little shoulder.

Christina: They'll move, they move a little bit more than Peggy Lee, but they're not dancers or they don't have any, theatrics per se, but the videos are aesthetically pleasing, I guess. So, yeah, those are my choices.

Miguel: All right. So for me, my favorite song is going to be MoKenStef, "He's Mine."

Christina: No it's not.

Miguel: Yes it is because it's so completely ridiculous.

Christina: Are you serious?

Miguel: No I'm not.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: It's uh, En Vogue. "Don't Let Go" from the Set It Off soundtrack because every song on that soundtrack was sad and dramatic.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: It was. Go back and listen to it if you don't believe me.

Christina: I can't remember what songs are on there now.

Miguel: There's a lot going on. My favorite album is Total's first album.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: From that era. And the favorite video is "What About Your Friends?" just because of the weird commentary throughout the video. They're dancing. This is T-Boz' cousin. Stuff like that.

Christina: All right.

Miguel: So from the tier who? section, who is someone that you think should have had a better shot?

Christina: You know what? I'm breaking the rules again, because I'm picking someone from tier two, which I did in the men's episode too.

Miguel: You did.

Christina: Because I think the tier who? people, most of them are kind of there because they were already copies of copies. But I think Allure should have had a better shot because, well, we know the sound works. So what happened?

Miguel: Like I said, it was Mariah's test kitchen.

Christina: We know that Crave records just ended and then they were signed with MCA after that. But things happen when you get dropped and resigned and get lost in the shuffle. They did swap out a member. I saw random album, but I don't know what this is.

Miguel: At some point they were signed by Ron Artest.

Christina: Yes. I saw that.

Miguel: And when there was the "Malice in the Palace" and he got suspended, he did an interview on the Today Show and they were asking him about the fight and he spent the entire time promoting Allure's album and his album that he had coming out. And that was the last I heard from Allure was Ron Artest trying to push their album[11] on the Today Show. And if I can find this video, we can post it on the website.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: That's the last I heard from them. So yeah, that tells me that they needed a little more help than Ron Artest.

Christina: I think so. Because between "Head Over Heels," "No Question." "All Cried Out" and "Last Chance." for pretty good songs to start out with and then disappear.

Miguel: And rolling with Ron Artest.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: AKA Metta World Peace is not going to get you to the top of the charts.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: So for me, I'm going with SWV because—

Christina: That should have had a bigger chance?

Miguel: I'm cheating like you, because even though I have them in the top tier.

Christina: They could have been bigger.

Miguel: They still, in my opinion should have been bigger than what they were.

Christina: I see that. I can see that.

Miguel: I think they should have done a lot better.

Christina: Because they are in the top tier for us.

Miguel: But not everybody.

Christina: But they do not have the same crossover.

Miguel: Crossover.

Christina: Or like level of popularity as TLC and En Vogue.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But maybe that's why their music sounds the way it does.

Miguel: It is.

Christina: Right? Because we always say there's that little switch once you get that big, big hit.

Miguel: Yeah. So who is your favorite from this era?

Christina: You know, it's really hard because SWV and En Vogue, they're such opposite ends.

Miguel: But you can only choose one.

Christina: I'm going with SWV. I listen to them more often.

Miguel: I'm going with TLC. It's a, a random choice for me, especially since I said earlier that I wasn't a huge fan of TLC.

Christina: Yeah I thought you were going to pick En Vogue.

Miguel: But here's the thing.

Christina: Hell, even Destiny's Child.

Miguel: Here's the thing though. En Vogue's run was short. They had good five, six years. Whereas TLC was there at early '90s. They were there at the end. So they had the streets and they had the charts. So I'm going with TLC.

Christina: Okay. Okay.

Miguel: That's all I've got.

Christina: All right.

Miguel: Anything else you want to add before we get outta here?

Christina: I think that's it.

Miguel: I agree. So we're going to wrap up here. Thank you again for listening to They Reminisce Over You. Make sure to follow us on social media @troypodcast on Instagram and Twitter, you can visit us at troypodcast.com. Get all the good stuff that we talked about here in the episode. You can get transcripts links to the videos that we've been talking about. Things that we'll think about after the episode is done recording, and we want to add as well. If you would like to hear a playlist, for this episode on Spotify, you can get that link at the website. If you would like to hear it playlist integrated into the episode, you can search Spotify They Reminisce Over You, Music + Talk edition and get all the good stuff there as well. Any other goodies you wanna give to the folks?

Christina: Oh, also the Music and Talk edition works best if you have a subscription to Spotify.

Miguel: If you have the premium account, you get to hear the full songs, otherwise you only get 30 seconds and it doesn't sound as good my opinion. But hey, get that free month or whatever, check us out and then cancel.

Christina: If you haven't cancelled your subscription yet to Spotify.

Miguel: Exactly. So that's all I got for this week.

Christina: See you guys in two weeks.

Miguel: Bye-bye.

Christina: Bye!