They Reminisce Over You Podcast

Michael K. Williams cover art for episode 21 of the They Reminisce Over You Podcast

Nov 5, 2021

Episode 21: Michael K. Williams - Oh, Indeed

Episode Summary

On this episode we're discussing the late Michael Kenneth Williams. We had planned to do an episode on him in 2022, but unfortunately he passed away before we could record it. Our mission is to give flowers while people are here to smell them, but we felt that we needed to take the time to discuss our favorite moments from his career, so those who may not be as familiar with him can check out the amazing body of work that he left behind.


Christina: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You. I'm Christina.

Miguel: And I'm Miguel. On this episode, we are going to be talking about the late, great, Michael K. Williams. This is someone we had plans on doing an episode on, but we have a really long list and we just didn't get around to it, unfortunately. And as you all know, he has passed away in the past couple of months since we've been recording episodes. So we're going to take this time to actually do the episode that we meant to do.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: So, you want to just get right into it?

Christina: Let's do it.

Miguel: All right. So what I found out, and I didn't know, is he was inspired by Janet Jackson's "Rhythm Nation" video to become a dancer.

Christina: I literally just read that before we started recording.

Miguel: Yeah, I knew he was a dancer, but I didn't realize that was the spark that did it was Janet Jackson.

Christina: I didn't find out he was a dancer until pretty recently, maybe in the last year or so, just, you know, stumbled upon somebody posting videos of him dancing. And it's kind of funny that, it's kind of like, remember when we were talking about Usher's album and how now we can hear Faith singing background all over it, that, Michael K. Williams was someone I've seen for a long time.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But just didn't know that was him.

Miguel: Exactly. 'Cause the first place I became familiar with him, and didn't know it, was the "100% Pure Love" video[1] that he choreographed and the Madonna video[2].

Christina: And that he's in and choreographed.

Miguel: So we knew who he was without knowing who he was.

Christina: Right. And even just, you know, doing research for this episode, just seeing posts of other things that he's been in, I'm like, I've watched all these videos. Like Mya, Missy, Ginuwine. There's a live performance on some award show with The Braxtons[3] when they first came out as a group. And I remember the performance and now I see him clearly in there as one of the dancers.

Miguel: I didn't know about the Mya stuff until earlier today when I was just watching an interview that he had done, I forget who it was with. But he was just talking about how he left the tour to come back and audition for Martin Scorsese. And he lied and told everybody that he was going for like family emergency.

Christina: Yeah, I watched that interview too. I think it was Vanity Fair[4]. They were doing like a breakdown of his career. But I'm sure he's told this story many times. So it's funny to discover him as a dancer now, which we'll jump into a little bit more, the types of roles that he's in, but he generally tends to play more tough guy roles.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: And the majority of his, he did some like hip hop dance, but it's very like house music, style of dancing. So this was like what? Late '80s and early '90s that he was doing most of the dancing.

Miguel: And he was heavy in the ballroom scene in New York as well.

Christina: Oh, okay. Oh, I didn't know that.

Miguel: Yeah. I read that that was like his safe haven. Cause he said he used to get bullied a lot. And those were the people that took him in where like the, the ballroom scene and the LGBT community. And he said he felt safer in that environment because of being bullied, growing up.

Christina: Right. Well, his style of dancing really would match in the ballroom scene.

Miguel: It does. It does, especially that Crystal Waters[5] video. And what's funny is seeing the video when it was out originally, I always would look at them dancing, like, they going hard.

Christina: Yup.

Miguel: And come to find out it was Michael K. Williams.

Christina: I was reading an interview with Crystal Waters[6] and she was just saying how he came late to the video shoot. They had finished pretty much shoot ing and he shows up and everybody's mad because they're like, you know, this stuff costs money and you just show up and he's like, it's fine. It's fine. And then he, I think he might've choreographed something new or something just let's do this. She's like he had a way of just charming people and, you know, they were mad, but they let him record and it ended being, you know, really great photography[7], cinematography.

Miguel: The—what we know.

Christina: And yeah, it's like iconic video. If you listen to that music around that time, you know, this video.

Miguel: Exactly. I wasn't listening to Crystal Waters, but I know the video because it was always on. Like, it was on MTV, BET. You would see it on all the video networks. Mostly on Video Jukebox. That's where I was watching a lot of the videos at the time.

Christina: Well, we didn't have that. For me it was MuchMusic.

Miguel: Yeah. If anybody's not familiar with Video Jukebox, it was basically, you could call a phone number and request videos and they would play it for you.

Christina: This is some old head shit.

Miguel: It really is. So you would see a lot of the same videos over and over again.

Christina: Because the people wanted it.

Miguel: They did.

Christina: And if you didn't want it, then you need to call in and ask for something else.

Miguel: Or it was, as Warren G told us, well, not us personally, but the record labels calling in and paying for them, so the video streams would go up.

Christina: You know what? That makes sense.

Miguel: And trick people into saying, hey, this song is popular. But I digress. Let's get back to Michael.

Christina: Right. So, he had this career as a dancer before he started acting. But, I saw some parallels with his acting career as Bokeem, as I was just kind of looking at stuff. And let me tell you how I came to this.

Miguel: Okay. Alright.

Christina: Well, first of all, Tupac was instrumental in helping them both out.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: So he was, Michael K was explaining about how, his head shots, cause of his dancing, was kind of just floating around different, different production companies or whatever. And Tupac saw a picture of him with the scar across his face. And he was like, I want that guy to play my little brother in Bullet, because he liked his look.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And here's a side note. Somebody explained this to me before, maybe it was you. I can't remember. Why do they call that big scar a "buck fifty?"

Miguel: Because basically, when you would get cut, it would take 150 stitches to put you back together. So 150, give or take. I'm sure it wasn't exactly 150.

Christina: 'Cause when he said, you know, he saw that buck fifty on my face. I was like, I've heard this expression before and I know it means the scar, but I'm like, how does this make sense?

Miguel: Yeah. It's the, the amount of stitches, give or take, it took to put Humpty Dumpty back together again.

Christina: Okay. Yeah. So Tupac saw him, liked his look, got his people to find him. He still had to audition, but that's how he ended up getting the part, playing his younger brother, even though he was older than Tupac.

Miguel: I watched the movie, but I don't remember him in it until I started watching the clips. I was like, oh, that was him.

Christina: Yeah. I never watched the movie, so I can't say anything about it.

Miguel: Yeah. It was at a time when Pac was just cranking out movies.

Christina: It's 1996, I think.

Miguel: Yeah. Somewhere in there. And he was just doing a bunch of movies at the same time. He's putting a lot of music out because as he was trying to get all of h is stuff out, because he didn't think he was going to be here very long. And unfortunately that came true. But that was one of the movies that he had done.

Christina: Okay.

So they didn't end up becoming buddies the way Bokeem and Tupac did, but he did help him start his career in acting. The other parallel I found was, you know, he got that role and then he got the role, in that Scorsese film, Bringing Out the Dead. And, so he was like, I'm in a Scorsese film. You know, he just did this film with Tupac. So he's like, I'm going to be a star. And then...

Miguel: It didn't happen.

Christina: It didn't happen. And he was just talking about how he's experiencing depression and just kind of feeling bad booking, you know, these little one-off roles and stuff. And he said that, I think he was just like hanging out at home with his friend, just like playing spades or whatever.

Miguel: Oh, yeah, I read it. He was actually hanging out with Sean Price[8] at the time.

Christina: Oh okay. And yeah. And then he said one of his movies came on and I think it was the Scorsese film. Something came on that he did. And he was like, you know what? I need to like, try really hard and get back into this. And he said, he put together this like hour long reel or something. He's like, reels are supposed to be like five minutes. Just, when he was telling this story about like, you know, he got some like good roles he thought this was going to be a thing. You know, the Tupac connection. And then he—his slump wasn't as long, it was just a couple of years.

Miguel: It wasn't a fifteen year slump. More like two or three.

Christina: Yeah, And also just talking about being cast as certain types of characters because of how he looked, even if that wasn't necessarily who he was. So, I just couldn't help but kind of think about Bokeem's experience as well.

Miguel: Yeah, I was reading that he actually was borrowing money from his mom during this time. Like, I'll pay you back when I get back on my feet. And she had a daycare and she was like, well since you owe me this money, you're going to come work at my day care to—

Christina: You might as well work.

Miguel: To kinda pay me off. But eventually he was able to get back out there.

Christina: Right.

[music break]

Christina: So, when do you actually remember seeing him first?

Miguel: I think it was The Wire. I had seen the things that he was in before The Wire, but obviously I didn't know who he was. But once I started watching The Wire and seeing him as Omar, and everybody else in The Wire, I was hooked. So, I'm going to go with The Wire as being the first place that I actually can say I remember him from.

Christina: Right. Yeah. When I was looking at his IMDb[9], I didn't see Bullet. I didn't see Bringing Out the Dead, but I did see Gone Baby Gone, which came out in 2007.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: I didn't watch The Wire until it was already off the air. So, I can't remember exactly when I watched it was probably around that time, but I don't really remember him in Gone Baby Gone either. I think he played like a detective or something. But in my mind, that's where I remember seeing him first, which I think for a lot of people is probably how we were introduced to him.

Miguel: That's where people were introduced to him. And it's probably what they only know him for as well. Since The Wire is so big with all sorts of people, I wouldn't be surprised if folks haven't seen him outside of playing Omar.

Christina: Right. I would say maybe his next biggest role is probably Boardwalk Empire. Because that one, he had a pretty sizeable role and it was also the type of show that's popular with a lot of different kinds of people.

Miguel: Right. And it was HBO, so it hit a lot of audiences as well. Yeah, I probably only saw him in The Wire and then he would make like random appearances in music videos. Because everybody in The Wire was doing music videos at this time. So yeah, it was probably, I'd say that, then Boardwalk Empire and things going from there.

Christina: Yeah. When did Boardwalk Empire... when was it out?

Miguel: I don't remember but...

Christina: 2010 to 2014. So yeah, that sounds about right, because I think... The Wire ended in 2008.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And since I watched it sometime after that, then it would have went right into Boardwalk Empire basically.

Miguel: So you went right into... Yeah, Boardwalk Empire was a lot better than I thought it was going to be, cause...

Christina: You thought it was going to be all like, "seeeee yee-ah."

Miguel: I did. And then they did have the one character who was like that. I can't remember his name, but it was Steve Buschemi and I had never seen him do anything dramatic. So I'm like this can't possibly be any good. And it ends up being one of my favorite TV shows of all time. And the Chalky White character that Michael K. played was just another character that I loved as well. Because he was, he was working with White people, but he didn't exactly back down from White people. Because it's set in what, like the '20s and '30s. And that's a time when Black people didn't talk to White people the way that he did.

Christina: Nope.

Miguel: So it was, it was good to see that. He was playing, a bootlegger and just basically part of the criminal underworld in New Jersey, but he kind of ran the Black side of town.

Christina: Right. Yeah. I don't even remember much already. I just remember I enjoyed the show. But I mean, you're asking me to remember something from six, six years ago.

Miguel: And you have problems remembering things from six weeks ago.

Christina: Six hours ago.

Miguel: Oh man.

Christina: So, I think it's been long enough that I would probably like to rewatch it now.

Miguel: Yeah. It's been awhile.

Christina: So, like I said, it ended in 2014. I remember really enjoying it.

Miguel: Yeah. It was good.

Christina: A lot of the movies that he's been in is stuff that, you know, we always talk about, and I can't remember. Recreational...

Miguel: Recreational trauma.

Christina: Recreational trauma. Yeah. So there are things that he's been in that I want to watch, but I just can't bring myself to watch it. For example, When They See Us.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: I know what the story is about, so it's not like it's a surprise to me or anything. And I think it's important to make movies like this because there are certain stories that need to be told.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: But I just can't bring myself to watch it. And then we ended up watching the first part just for research purposes. And I'm not sure if I'm going to finish it.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Because it's just heartbreaking, even though that's like a TV show, but it's based off of reality. And, f you don't know though, When They See Us is basically a show about the Central Park Five. And in that first part, you have these grown men, detectives, who are just taking advantage of literal children. And getting them to admit to a brutal crime that they did not commit.And it's just, it's really hard to watch. So the bit that I was able to see, I just wanted to see him. And I mean, he did a good job as he always does.

Miguel: Yeah. I expected what we saw. His performance in the one episode that we did watch was really good. And that's the reason I hadn't seen him in 12 Years a Slave either.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Because I didn't want to watch that.

Christina: Yeah. And the thing is sometimes we do watch these types of movies but...

Miguel: Yeah. It takes a while for us to get around to it.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah.

Miguel: Kind of like this.

Christina: Or it has to have, like, it still has to have some kind of entertainment element to it. For example, Lovecraft Country. I mean, even though they're battling monsters and time travelling, all that stuff, the biggest monster in Lovecraft Country is racism.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: So even though they're dealing with a lot of trauma, there's still like, the fantasy.

Miguel: That sci-fi element

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Kind of makes it easier to digest.

Christina: Yeah. Whereas 12 Years a Slave, or When They See Us, this is like, shit that happened.

Miguel: Right. Like if they had a blue monster show up in When They See Us, I would be able to digest that a little bit better.

Christina: Yeah, but you're watching like, a 13 year old get beat up by a cop.

Miguel: Yeah, I don't want to see that.

Christina: And then being forced to confess to a rape. It's like his parents were like, he don't even talk to girls yet.

Miguel: Right. So...

Christina: It's a bit much.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But, I mean, after watching the first episode, it was done really well. So in that sense, I would recommend watching it if you want to watch that.The acting by all the actors that we saw in that one episode was good, but not sure if I'm going to finish it.

Miguel: And that's the case with most of the projects he's been involved in. They're all solid. Well, except for Superfly.

Christina: Oh.

Miguel: Superfly... at least his performance was good in Superfly. It was just the rest of it that was kind of shaky.

Christina: Oh, it was bad.

Miguel: But for the most part, the stuff that he's been in, it's all been very good and well directed. Well acted.

Christina: I'm so glad—

Miguel: Great scripts.

Christina: Right. I'm so glad that in Superfly, they did not make him do something weird with his hair. Like some, many of the characters in that movie.

Miguel: That was a choice.

Christina: Yeah. But just watching Superfly and just some of the other movies that we've watched when we've done other episodes, is when you're a good actor, you can work with what you get.

Miguel: Right. Yeah.

Christina: Because despite that movie just overall not being very good at all, when he was on screen

Miguel: Yeah. You were focused on him.

Christina: When he was on screen, it didn't feel so bad. But as soon as he was gone.

Miguel: It was like, why are we watching this music video?

Christina: This makes no sense. This is stupid.

Miguel: It was.

Christina: Like it was, yeah. We're not here to talk about Superfly. We're here to talk about Michael K. But I would not recommend watching that unless it's just on TV and it's in the background and you're just cleaning or some** Yeah, you can't get to your remote. Then go ahead and knock it out.

Christina: But if you want to watch some Michael K., here's way better stuff.

Miguel: Like you mentioned, Lovecraft Country. That one was really good. I don't want to say much about it because it would give a lot of the plot away, but his performance in that was really strong and powerful.

Christina: I actually wouldn't mind watching it again, even though we watched it, not that long ago, because there's a lot going on in the story.

Miguel: It is.think I would like to watch it again, just to process everything.

Miguel: I'm down for that. And I would want to watch it again because I'm getting things mixed up from the TV show and the book. So I'm not sure what really happened, where.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: So, I'm good with watching it again.

[music break]

Christina: Well, there's stuff that we've just kind of watched over the years, but we also watched a bunch of other stuff in preparation for this. And, even though he kind of gets typecasted or itmaybe more so in the beginning. I mean he talked about this in a Breakfast Club interview[10], he says he doesn't really look at it as a bad thing necessarily because he gets work.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But he has been able to play a lot of different types of roles though.We watched Body Brokers, which is, the movie is just basically about how there are people slash organizations out there that are taking advantage of a loophole in the American healthcare system that provides, um...

Miguel: Insurance scams basically.

Christina: Yeah. Yeah. Insurance scams for, people with addictions. Long story short, actually not long story short. I won't spoil it too much, but it's just basically about insurance scams and people running these detox centers. nd he plays basically a person who recruits.

Miguel: He's a body broker.

Christina: Yeah, he's a body broker. He recruits people to come stay at these facilities.

Miguel: Yeah. And that character is completely different from the character in The Red Sea Diving Resort where he's playing an Ethiopian who's trying to help people escape the war.

Christina: That's another example of how a good actor can make a bad movie a little bit better. Because The Red Sea Diving Resort is based off of true events, or inspired by true events. I have an article[11] that I've been meaning to read about what really happened at The Red Sea Diving Resort, that I haven't read yet. But just watching the movie, I think they took a lot of liberties.

Miguel: I would believe so.

Christina: Because the movie is supposed to be about how, um... they're an Israeli spy group, right?Led by, um...

Miguel: He was...

Christina: One of the Chris's.

Miguel: Yeah. Chris...

Christina: Evans.

Miguel: Chris Evans. Yes. He plays an American who was originally born in Israel, sent to America, went back to Israel when he was 18. And now he's leading these randoms, helping the Israeli army smuggle people out of Ethiopia.

Christina: Refugees.

Miguel: Yeah. Refugees out of Ethiopia.

Christina: These Ethiopian Jews are being persecuted and they're helping them get out of the country. And unfortunately, there's so much focus more on this group, rather than the Ethiopians. And it was filmed so strangely. Like when he was putting his team together, we're like, are we watching Ocean's Eleven? Or are we watching a movie about helping refugees? It was just very fantastical, very White savior. And I would've liked more Michael K.

Miguel: Yeah. But, I can't say much about the accuracy of his accent.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: So it, it sounded a lot more Caribbean rather than Ethiopian to me. Like again, when he's on screen, you can't help but to just focus on him and what he's saying. Because just the facial expressions that he's giving, it makes you feel the danger that he's talking about and how they need to get these people out to safety. And same with other things that we've seen him in. There are different types of movies where he plays the same character. Like The Night Of, he's in prison. Another powerful performance, so if you haven't seen that, it's another HBO mini series. That character is completely different from Bessie, where he played the husband of Bessie Smith. But, at the same time, he does a lot of period pieces too, or did a lot of period pieces. So, if you need a Black guy to play a dude wearing a suit in the 1920s.

Christina: And some wing tips.

Miguel: Some wing tips, three piece suit with a watch hanging out on a chain, he's your guy. But that's completely different from what we watched him in, in The Public, where he played a homeless veteran who led a sit in at a library because they were protesting, the lack of space and facilities for homeless people during a cold spell in Cincinnati.

Christina: Yes. And they just wanted to stay in the library for the night.

Miguel: Yeah. And...

Christina: So they wouldn't freeze to death.

Miguel: Yeah. That character is completely different from Omar, for example, who was basically a jacker. Like, "I robs drug dealers." Like, that was his job title. He robbed drug dealers and murdered his enemies. But that character is completely different from Hap and Leonard, where he's playing Leonard Pine, who's a Vietnam vet who is—

Christina: And a country boy at heart.

Miguel: He's country. He's conservative, but he lives in Texas. So...

Christina: Like small town Texas.

Miguel: Yeah, all of these characters are completely different, but plays them with such conviction that you believe that he's all of these people.

Christina: And it's interesting that you say that because um, a few interviews that I've read or watched, he talks about how playing some of these characters, especially the darker characters, have gotten to him emotionally, because it just, it gets him into that head space of, you know, what these characters are like. Like, The Night Of, as you were saying, he was playing one of the guys in prison. He's like, you know, one of the big dogs in prison. And he takes an interest in Nas, the main character. He's supposedly offering him protection, but... kind of. Anyways, he was just saying how, like, that role really got to him. And I don't want to get into this too much, but, you know, we know he dabbled with drugs. And so I would imagine playing roles like that would kind of be difficult if that's something you, you know, have experienced in your own life. But I guess that's one of those things about, you know, being a true artist, right? It's like, you're all in.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Whether it's positive or negative.

Miguel: Exactly. Like—

Christina: 'Cause he was going through a bunch of stuff when he was doing The Wire as well.

Miguel: And that's just how creatives are. Like, you throw everything you have into it and sometimes it's to your detriment. But there are other characters where he was completely different. Like in Community, which is a ridiculous TV show. He's just playing a professor at a community college. And he can't really stand the main group of characters in the show. So it's—

Christina: Understandably. They're wacky.

Miguel: They are. And they just get on his nerves. So to just see him get so frustrated with these people in his classroom is funny to me.

Christina: Yeah. I have a little story about Bessie, to go back to that. So another interview I was watching, he was talking about how he'd been friends with Queen Latifah since she was like, seventeen. And even though they knew each other for so long, he's like, oh, I still had to audition for the movie. He's like, not only that I had to come back for three callbacks and I've known this girl for twenty-five years.

Miguel: Wow.

Christina: So she's like—they made him work for it.

Miguel: Oh man. That's funny.

Christina: Even though they been like, tight since she was...

Miguel: And it's not like he didn't have a resume.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: You know what I can do.

Christina: We've got to make sure you right for the role.

Miguel: You knew that after the first one.

Christina: He was talking about how when they were hanging out, when she was seventeen, and she's telling him, "I just got a record deal."

Miguel: So they go that far back.

Christina: That's how long they know each other.

Miguel: And Bessie was probably 15 years into her career at this point.

Christina: 2015.

Miguel: Oh, there you go. It was longer. Yeah. And if he's known her that long, and it's 2015, it's like you got 10 years of my own work to look at.

Christina: Exactly. Three callbacks.

Miguel: That's funny.

Christina: So, I guess, you know, that shows her level of commitment as well.

Miguel: Yeah.

[music break]

Miguel: All right. So we've given a quick overview of some of the things that we enjoyed watching him in. Boardwalk Empire, The Wire, obviously. What would you suggest for people to check out from his filmography to kind of get an idea of who he was if they haven't watched much of his stuff outside of The Wire?

Christina: I would say for something that's different from The Wire, even like, the Omar-like characters, Hap and Leonard. I did not know what to expect. I'd never heard of this before. We just found it on Netflix when we were trying to find stuff that he was in. And this ended up being very enjoyable.

Miguel: Yeah. I was going to suggest that one as well. It's a drama, but it's a comedy as well.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: They basically like Scooby and Shaggy in a way, but—

Christina: They keep stumbling into these Scooby-Doo ass mysteries here, that they have to get out of or figure out.

Miguel: Yeah. And he's really funny in that.

Christina: Yeah. They kind of touch on heavy topics. Like, Hap is his best friend who is also White. And as we were saying, they live in like small town, Texas.

Miguel: In the 80's.

Christina: In the 80's. Yeah. So there is a lot—they'll touch on like a lot of racism, kind of stuff. But it's done in a lighthearted way. I guess it helps because they're always getting into these hi-jinks and stuff. Like, these situations that they have to have to get out of.

Miguel: It's like, how did they end up here again?

Christina: Yeah. So that ended up being quite enjoyable considering I had no idea what it was about. And even when we were just looking at the description and we're like, what is this?

Miguel: This doesn't make any sense.

Christina: Like Bosom Buddies meets Scooby-Doo Mysteries, you know, meets...

Miguel: Trading Places.

Christina: I don't know.

Miguel: Like buddy flicks.

Christina: Yeah. And so, he's really funny in it. It's very easy to watch.

Miguel: Yeah. The seasons are only six episodes long. There's three seasons. It's on Netflix, so you can check it out and get through it really quickly. But that was going to be my suggestion as well. I was going to go either with that or just look up some videos of him on YouTube, just dancing.

Christina: Yeah. The dancing videos are pretty good.

Miguel: Like people will catch him at a park. Like, a band is playing at a park and there he is just dancing and enjoying all of it. There's videos[12] of him performing as Old Dirty Bastard. Cause he was supposed to play ODB in a movie. So that one was pretty entertaining.

Christina: Or just watch some of your favorite videos that you didn't realize he was in like myself, like Missy's, Supa Dupa Fly[13]. He's one of the dancers in there.

Miguel: You can't see his face, but you can pick him out in the video.

Christina: Pretty sure I can tell which one he was. Oh yeah. I forgot to mention... well, I never watched this movie, but you know, my favorite line, "Fuck 'em we ball."

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I did not know until what, yesterday that he was the executive producer for this, like it's—it was an indie movie, right?

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Snow on the Bluff. And I remember when it came out, there was a, you know, a little bit of controversy because people couldn't tell if this was real or not. It was set in Atlanta. And it was about a crack dealer and it was filmed very like, documentary style. And so I remember people being like, is this real? Or is it a movie? And that was the bit of the mystery around it. Yeah. So I've only ever seen little clips, but that, "Fuck 'em. We ball." I had that as my Twitter bio for the longest time.

Miguel: Yeah. I remember watching it. There's some things in it that are kind of hard to watch. So just keep that in mind, if you want to watch Snow on the Bluff. Look at all the descriptions and possibly a trailer first. So you go into it with open eyes and not just be like, what the fuck! So, yeah.

Christina: You can also watch him in some of your favorite video games. I know you like your NBA2K.

Miguel: Yeah, he was in last year's 2K[14] edition. Uh, he was also in Battlefield 4, which is a war video game. And he's in the upcoming version of it as well, Battlefield 2042[15]. I think that's supposed to be out in December or so. So, you have those to choose from as well, if you're a gamer. And that's pretty much all I have.

Christina: Well, you know, the only thing I play is Legend of Zelda and Super Mario Brothers, which I haven't played in a long time.

Miguel: You haven't. But you can jump back on that.

All right. Do you have anything else added to this episode before we get out of here?

Christina: Um, I just wanted to say, you know, the whole point of us doing this podcast was to give people their flowers while they're here to celebrate them. So, even though, we don't know these people, it's still, you feel connected to them when you do enjoy somebody's art. So, it's a little, little bit of a heavy heart.

Miguel: Yeah. And it's someone that we actually had talked about doing for a while. We have a long list of people and he was on that list. So, it kinda sucks that this is the reason we have to do it, but we had planned on doing it anyway because we're both fans.

Christina: And have been for longer than even we knew.

Miguel: Yeah. It started with The Wire and I've been a fan of pretty much everything he's done ever since. It's just unfortunate that we have to do it in these circumstances.

Christina: But again, we're here to celebrate.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: His life and his work. And it seems as if he was loved by all.

Miguel: Yeah. So, on that note, we're going to get out of here. So, thank you again for listening. Make sure to follow us on social media, @troypodcast on all socials. That's Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, Myspace, BlackPlanet.

Christina: Just the first two.

Miguel: Okay. Just Instagram and Twitter. I made that last part up. Definitely go and check out the new website. Play around, click on things, check out the transcripts.

Christina: Yup.

Miguel: All the transcripts are not there. We will be adding more as we go, because doing transcriptions is a bitch.

Christina: It is. So expect to see the website to be ever evolving.

Miguel: Yes, which is a good thing. So that keeps you coming back. Also, follow us on your podcast service of choice. Don't forget to rate and subscribe and review. Go ahead and leave us five stars. You don't even have to leave a comment, just leave a five star review. We'd appreciate it. Also, if you wanted to check out our playlists, go to the website. We do companion playlists for all of our episodes. So if you want to check those out, do that too. Anything else you want to add before we go?

Christina: Hmm, you already said review and rate, so...that's it.

Miguel: All right. So, we'll see you again in two weeks. 'Til then.

Christina: Bye.

Miguel: Bye.