On this episode, we're diving into the world of Naughty By Nature. Formed in New Jersey, the trio of Treach, Vin Rock, and DJ Kay Gee came onto the scene as The New Style with their debut album, "Independent Leaders," in 1989. With their high-energy performances and infectious production, they quickly became one of the most popular acts not only in hip hop, but pop music as well. Hit singles like "O.P.P.," "Uptown Anthem," and "Hip Hop Hooray" were instant classics and helped to solidify their place as hip-hop legends.
Christina: This is They Reminisce Over You. I'm Christina.
Miguel: And I'm Miguel. This week we are gonna be talking about one of the most iconic groups of all time. They come from East Orange, New Jersey. Did you know that?
Christina: I did.
Miguel: The trio of Treach, Vin Rock, and DJ KayGee has left a mark on the world of both hip hop and pop music. That's hard to do because—
Christina: It is.
Miguel: Not everybody can do that. So we're gonna talk about some of their classic songs and talk about some of our favorite songs from them so…I see you over there.
Christina: I was ready to get my stiff arm on.
Miguel: No need for that right now. So yeah, we're talking about Naughty By Nature this week. Are you a fan?
Christina: I am.
Miguel: Okay, good. Good to hear.
Christina: You know that.
Miguel: I do. I don't know why I'm pretending that I didn't know that. I'm just doing this for the sake of our listeners. So, if you didn't know, they started as a group called The New Style.
Christina: Now that I didn't know.
Miguel: In 1989. Did you listen to the album that I sent you?
Christina: I, I just skimmed through it really quick.
Christina: It's very late ‘80s.
Miguel: Yes. It's an album called Independent Leaders, when they were signed to a subsidiary of Sugar Hill Records called Mon Ami. so what did you think about that Independent Leaders album? Because I have some comments.
Christina: I just thought it was hilarious because, you know, I know Naughty By Nature.
Christina: And you got these suede suits, this—
Miguel: The outfits were amazing.
Christina: This very high top fade and like I said, it’s very ’80s. They even got one song that’s kind of a little house-ish and I just, I…was not expecting that.
Miguel: I knew they had an album out before the one that we know, but I had never heard it until yesterday.
Miguel: It's surprisingly good.
Christina: Yeah. I didn't think it was bad. I just thought it was hilarious because I just didn't expect it.
Miguel: Yeah, listening to it in 2023, I wouldn't say it's good. But if I had listened to it then, I would've thought it was great because this is the kind of shit that I was listening to.
Miguel: It's funny that I actually like Vinnie on this album better than Treach. And I know I shouldn't be saying that out loud and in public, but on this album, Vinnie sounds better. Even though Treach probably wrote it.
Miguel: It just sounds better.
Miguel: ‘Cause you can tell that Treach is very young.
Christina: Yes, I was about to say, you can hear in his voice that he's young. And what we love Treach for was not on this album.
Miguel: No, not at all. Not at all. But like I said, it's surprisingly good if you look at it in a 1989 lens. So I suggest that all of you go to YouTube, actually go to troypodcast.com 'cause we're gonna link to it.
Christina: We will.
Miguel: But moving on from that, let's get into what we know them for. And that's the first self-titled album, Naughty By Nature.
Christina: Yes. 1991.
Miguel: Yeah. So… I know the answer to this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway. Where were you and what were your thoughts on this album when it first came out?
Christina: So, I'm pretty sure this is the first tape I bought for myself.
Christina: And this was also one of those turning points for me. From Top 40, pop-ish to hip hop R&B. And I remember I had a t-shirt, that I somehow found in the Abbotsford mall. I don't know why they were selling it in, in this store. It was a Naughty by Nature t-shirt with their logo, and it had “You down wit’ O.P.P.?” on it. And I'm wearing this to school. And, uh, mind you, I'm like 12.
Miguel: And nobody's saying anything.
Christina: No, because nobody knew what that was. And…
Miguel: That’s amazing.
Christina: It's one of those things where it's like, I knew what “O.P.P.” meant, but I didn’t—like…
Christina: I knew what it meant.
Miguel: You put it together with the clues from the song.
Christina: Right. But I didn't realize how wildly inappropriate that was.
Miguel: For a 12 year old.
Christina: Yeah. And I'm like, what kind of weird kid am I? That I'm like, this little girl in the suburbs, walking around with a “You down wit’ O.P.P?” t-shirt on in grade school.
Miguel: That's amazing.
Christina: And I wore that shirt out. It stretched out. It got thin. I wish I had kept it just for, you know, just to keep it.
Miguel: The beautiful thing about this is, you’re wearing this at home. You’re wearing this at school. And nobody even knew what the shirt meant. So you got away with it.
Miguel: When people should have been saying, “hey, you need to take this shirt off.”
Miguel: No one did.
Christina: Like I said, a Naughty By Nature T-shirt alone. It's fine. But it said, “You down wit’ O.P.P?” on it.
Miguel: Oh, I wish you had some pictures of that.
Christina: That I unfortunately do not have pictures of it.
Miguel: I would love to see that.
Christina: And not only that, I remember like, I loved…well, now it's called “Everything's Gonna Be Alright.” But the actual title is called—
Miguel: “Ghetto Bastard.”
Christina: And then that little skit intro is so harsh. “Another ghetto bastard. Put him with the rest of the born losers.” Like, I'm just reflecting. I'm like, I don't know. I just liked it.
Miguel: It was the music, because—
Christina: It was the music. You feel it in your soul, even if you don't understand why.
Miguel: And it's not even that, like, Naughty by Nature as a group, they don't make any sense. Like, they make music that people dance to and enjoy, but they look dirty. They look like they're gonna rob you, beat you. They wear chains with padlocks on them. Not gold chains or necklaces.
Christina: Like an actual chain.
Miguel: Chains that you put on a fence.
Miguel: And these are the people that are making all these party jams. Like, they don't make sense.
Christina: They don’t.
Miguel: They should not be popular. These should be the people that you would think that the suburban kids would be running from.
Miguel: But instead they ran to it.
Christina: Yeah. ‘Cause everybody was “down wit’ O.P.P.”
Christina: And I remember, I remember listening to the tape and “1, 2, 3” came on and if you, you are not familiar with the song, it goes “One motherfucking two, motherfucking three,”
Christina: Et cetera, et cetera. My mom happened to catch a little bit and she was like, what are you listening to? And so I had to learn to, you know, listen to stuff quieter—
Christina: Find more private spots, you know, eventually wear headphones. Yeah. But that tape was very influential for me in terms of forming my musical interests. And like I said, I remember that being my first tape that I bought for myself.
Miguel: Yeah, it wasn't the first tape that I bought. I had some before that, but it was one of my favorites at the time, just because of the music, because I liked all that shit. Like, even though I grew up listening to NWA and Eazy-E and stuff like that, I was also into like, very lyrical people.
Christina: Right. And that’s Treach right there.
Miguel: And Treach was that.
Christina: There's a lot of words.
Miguel: Yes, he was packing a lot of words and a bunch of different flows. And I say this all the time about the actual art of rap. He's one of the best people to ever do it, and I was hooked from the first time I heard it. Like, just take away his lyrics. Don't even worry about what he's saying, but how he's saying it, is just amazing. And I've always just been hooked by it.
Christina: I think that like, say for example, you know, Twista, because he raps so fast. That's like, his thing and people kind of love him for that. For me personally, I don't know if this is gonna make people upset. It's always felt a little gimmicky to me, whereas with Treach—
Christina: I dunno. I'm just like, okay, he raps really fast, but I have no idea what he's saying. But with Treach, I like, I kind of get being able to have that lyrical, what's the word I'm looking for? Like, to be able to do that, I guess. Because even though he packs a lot of words in, it's not like—
Christina: It's like, okay, I get it now because not everyone can do that.
Miguel: I was a fan from day one. So, just listening to this album, my cousin used to play it a lot and actually I think I got a copy from him. That's where I got it from. I have a cousin that's maybe three, four years older than me and he's the one that put me up on “O.P.P.” and “Ghetto Bastard” and all that.
Christina: Right. Um, back to “O.P.P.” Of course, they end up using a very wholesome sample.
Miguel: Yeah that too.
Christina: The Jackson 5, “ABC.”
Miguel: Like, you've got this call and response record, which is going to hit from the jump because it, it's a throwback to like, the beginnings of hip hop. We weren't around to go to like, clubs in New York. We didn't see people in the park doing this. We didn't have access to that.
Miguel: But this is what I imagine it was like in those days, the early days of hip hop, and this was our version of it.
Christina: And it was easy to follow along. “Yeah, you know me!”
Miguel: Right. You've got a a Jackson 5 sample that's familiar. You got the call and response and just them.
Christina: Something I just figured out now. So, the part where he's, explaining what “O.P.P.” stands for and he says, “for the ladies…” I always thought he said “the last P is something different.” But then I was reading the lyrics and he said, “the last P is something gifted.” And I was like, oh, that gives it a completely different meaning.
Miguel: It does.
Christina: I’m like, gifted?
Miguel: It changes it for you 30 years later.
Christina: Because I'm like, okay, it's something different 'cause well…it's something different.
Christina: That made sense to me. I was like “gifted?” Okay, Treach. All right. So, I just figured that out yesterday.
Christina: I guess that's what happens when you first listen to it when you're 12.
Christina: Like, you can only get so much.
Miguel: So, just listening to this, what is your favorite song on this album other than “1, 2, 3?” Because we know you like that one.
Christina: Well, I wouldn't put that as my favorite anyways. But, um…“O.P.P.”
Christina: I actually really like “Pin the Tail on the Donkey.” You know, the 1991 albums always have that slight shift, of like, they still kind of holding onto the, the little “go, go, go” dancing in rayon shirts kind of sounds. So, I just put that on my running playlist actually.
Miguel: Right. That's funny.
Christina: But eh, it's gotta be “O.P.P. “on this album.
Miguel: Yeah. I'm not going with “O.P.P.” though because as much as I do like the song—
Miguel: No. I'm not being a contrarian. I just think “Guard Your Grill” is better.
Miguel: And even though it's on like, the digital versions now, “Uptown Anthem” was not originally the album.
Miguel: So, I'm not gonna count it, because if that was the case, that would be my favorite.
Christina: Oh yeah. I was gonna say, that's actually my favorite Naughty By Nature song, period.
Christina: But it's on the Juice soundtrack.
Christina: But now if you stream it, it's on this album, but it came out like, the following year.
Miguel: Yeah, so on a technicality, that would be it, but since it wasn't really on the original album.
Miguel: I’m going with “Guard Your Grill.”
Christina: There's another song on this album, “Rhyme’ll Shine On,” which has like, a little jazzy vibe. Do you think this is Latifah's influence? Or just, just being around the same time—
Miguel: 1991. Yeah.
Christina: Era, space, place.
Miguel: Because, like I was saying, as gutter as they are and dirty looking, wearing fatigues and boots and carrying around a bat—
Christina: Or a machete.
Miguel: A machete. They also had these dance songs that you can get up and groove to.
Christina: Right. Mm-hmm.
Miguel: So, like I said, they don't make sense.
Christina: It doesn't because especially, okay, “O.P.P.” is very danceable, but it doesn't sound—like “Pin the Tail on the Donkey.” Now that is danceable.
Miguel: Yeah, but the lyrics—
Christina: Look at the cover and they're standing on rocks. And he’s holding a machete.
Miguel: Not only that, but the songs that you're dancing to. They're talking about beating people up, robbing 'em, selling drugs, all sorts of shit. But we are dancing to it.
Christina: Even—“Everything's Gonna Be Alright,” has a danceable quality to it.
Miguel: It does.
Christina: And he’s talking about “well positive ain't where I live!”
Miguel: Exactly. It's like all these songs are depressing, but we're dancing to ‘em.
Christina: Hey, I guess you gotta smile through the pain.
Christina: Are you enjoying this podcast?
Miguel: Hell yeah.
Christina: If you are as much as he is, there’s a couple things that you can do. You can feel free to drop some coins into our collection plate at ko-fi.com/troypodcast . And that’s “ko-fi” K O dash F I .com. Link is also in the show notes. We’re self-funded, so any support would be appreciated. And if you don’t have any extra coins to spare, just leave us a 5 star rating or review. Like JLo’s love, it won’t cost you a thing.
Miguel: You just sitting at home on the couch anyhow.
Christina: Alright, thanks.
Miguel: Back to the show.
Miguel: All right, so, let's get into the next album.
Miguel: 19 Naughty III.
Christina: They had another pop hit.
Miguel: And probably…I’m gonna go out on a limb and say that this is the biggest hip hop song of all time.
Christina: It's definitely up there.
Miguel: Yes. And if you don't know what we're talking about, it's “Hip Hop Hooray.”
Christina: So, the early days of the pandemic was a very strange time because—
Miguel: It was and I know where you're going with this.
Christina: Yeah, because I don't know, I'm a serious homebody. So, I mean, even for then it was weird because there's a difference between wanting to be home and having to be home. But I realized there's a lot of people that don't know what to do with themselves when they have to stay at home. So, a lot of weird shit happened.
Miguel: And this was early in the pandemic too.
Christina: Yeah. Early. You know what I'm talking about.
Miguel: I do.
Christina: The “Hip Hop Hooray” remix with Rita Wilson. You know how celebs were doing all these weird FaceTimes. So, she was on a FaceTime with Diddy rapping “Hip Hop Hooray.”
Christina: And then I guess she decided to make it official to raise Covid funds or whatever. A Covid relief fund.
Miguel: Yeah. ‘Cause I'm pretty sure that her and Tom Hanks were like the first celebrities—
Christina: Yeah, they were the big, the first big celebrities to like, get it. Had to shelter in place.
Miguel: Yeah. And this is what she was doing performing—
Christina: Bored at home.
Miguel: “Hip Hop Hooray.” But at least she has a reason for it because she had just done a movie where she had to do “Hip Hop Hooray” in the movie.
Miguel: She just didn't know the lyrics off the top of her head. I found this out later because she was doing an interview with somebody, but she had just done a movie where she played like a teacher or something.
Christina: Dangerous Minds.
Miguel: I don't know. That's what it sounds like to me. But it was the youngest son from Black-ish and I guess her character was trying to get the kids to learn stuff, so she had to learn the words to the song for the movie.
Christina: Yeah. It was very awkward listening to Rita Wilson talking about “written on your kitten.”
Miguel: It is.
Christina: I was like ew. I, ugh…
Christina: I'm just gonna leave it at that.
Miguel: Yeah, we'll link to it so you can be disgusted like we were. But Rita Wilson's cool. She's Tom Hanks wife. I like her.
Christina: Yeah, so I'm just gonna, you know…
Miguel: But at the same time, isn't she? Uh, Cutty—I can't even get it out. I was about to call him Cutty Hanks. Ol’ Chet—
Christina: Rudeboy Hanks.
Miguel: I don't know if that's his mom—I'm pretty sure that's his mom.
Christina: I don't know. I don't know actually.
Miguel: Because I know his oldest is not her kid, but I'm pretty sure that ol’ Chet, aka Cutty Hanks—
Christina: The mandem.
Miguel: Chet Haze, is her son.
Christina: Yeah. So…
Miguel: But anyway.
Christina: I like Tom. Yeah. So, I saw that when I was just going through like, the Tidal albums and singles and I was like, what? I didn't know what to expect when I clicked on it. And I was kind of horrified, but not surprised.
Christina: Also when I was just, you know, doing general web searches and whatnot on allmusic.com, the description of Naughty by Nature's Greatest Hits compilation was “Right from the get-go, Naughty by Nature's greatest-hits compilation reminds people that before there was the invasion of P. Diddy and the Bling-Blingers, there was a group who perfectly balanced the strength of street knowledge with accessible pop tunes that even had suburban mothers espousing the virtues of ‘O.P.P.’”
Miguel: All right. There you have it.
Christina: At least she didn't do “O.P.P.”
Miguel: Yeah. That would've been just bad. That would've been bad for everyone.
Christina: Oh, another thing I wanna mention about “Hip Hop Hooray” is, so, there's this, there was this website I used to go through, I forgot it was called—like The Useless Web, I think, dot com. And it would just serve you up these like, silly websites. And there's a website that is heeeeeeeey.com with like, eight e’s. And all it does is redirects to another website that's hooooooooo.com. So, it just goes, “hey ho, hey ho.” And that’s all there is on the page. And I believe he used to have the audio, whoever created it, had the audio on the website, but I think it kept getting like, I don't know, copyright strikes or something. But theuselessweb. So yeah, if you want to see it, just go to hey dot com with eight e’s. And it'll just keep directing you back to, “hey ho, hey ho.”
Miguel: All right. I might have to check this out. This album I didn't like as much as the first one.
Christina: I found that it had less variations, so it kind of, after a while, you kind of feel like you're just listening to the same song.
Miguel: Yeah. But there are some that I do like on this album. So, outside of “Hip Hop Hooray,” “It's On,” is one of my favorites. I don't like the version of “Written on Your Kitten” that's on the album. I like the video version because it's a, a lot more entertaining—
Miguel: And pleasurable to the ear, to me.
Christina: Oh, you know what? I didn't realize there was two versions 'cause when I listened to it on the album I was like, this doesn't sound familiar. ‘Cause I was like, I feel like I know this song. But then when I heard it I was like, I don't know this song.
Miguel: Yeah the lyrics are the same, but the beat is completely different.
Christina: I'm gonna have to look that up.
Miguel: It was remixed by QD III.
Christina: Surprisingly, and I will explain why it's surprising, I think I do like “Hip Hop Hooray” the best on this album. And I say surprisingly because of its popularity, you would think that I would've put it in the, “This Is How We Do It,” “I Wish—“
Miguel: Right. All those songs you don’t like.
Christina: All those songs, yeah, that I used to like, but just hate now because I'm tired of it. You know? It's just all over the place, in strange places, sometimes. But every time I hear it I'm like, this still sounds good.
Miguel: Because it is the greatest song of all time.
Christina: Greatest song of all time?
Miguel: All right. I might have put a little too much on it.
Miguel: It's not that, but I just wanted to say it. It's a good song, but yeah, it can be a little cheesy.
Miguel: But like I said, it's probably the most popular hip hop song of all time. Everybody knows this. You see it at sporting events. You hear it in movies, you see it on tv.
Christina: On Rita Wilson's Instagram.
Miguel: On Rita Wilson's Instagram. So it's not going anywhere.
Christina: I have some surprising f—uh, it surprised me anyways—facts for you.
Christina: So, I pulled out the Billboard charts, and on The Hot 100, “Hip Hop Hooray” actually didn't chart as high as “O.P.P.”
Miguel: That is surprising.
Christina: “O.P.P.’s” peak was at number 6 and “Hip Hop Hooray” was 8. And I'm talking about The Hot 100, which is the general category.
Christina: Yeah, I totally would've thought “Hip Hop Hooray” would've been higher than “O.P.P.” and just higher in general. I'm surprised it didn’t—I would've thought it hit number 1. But it peaked at 8. “Hip Hop Hooray” peaked at 1 on the Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs and “O.P.P.” peaked at 5. And surprisingly, I did not expect “Everything's Gonna be Alright” to be on The Hot 100. That just seemed…
Miguel: I would.
Christina: It was 53 wasn’t isn't that high, but it's, it was on there.
Miguel: Because “O.P.P.” was so popular that MTV remade it. Like with Dr. Dre and Ed Lover and—
Miguel: T-Money, and they did “You down wit’ MTV.”
Miguel: They made a video and everything. So, the song was huge.
Christina: Okay. Yeah. Which means people will be open to at least hearing the next single.
Miguel: So, I'm not surprised at that.
Christina: Yeah. I would've thought “Hip Hop Hooray” would've at least charted higher though, because that, to me, I mean they were both popular but that seems to be a little bit more. ‘Cause the “hey, ho” part—
Christina: Like, we talking about call and response, like, you can't get simpler than that.
Christina: And you got the arm movements too. People love arm movements. Right?
Miguel: Hi kids. Do you like fun?
Miguel: And bookmarking a bunch of articles you’ll probably never read? We’re starting a monthly newsletter called Liner Notes. We’ll be sharing what we’re watching, what we’re listening to, throwback YouTube videos, updates on our upcoming projects, random shit you may have missed on the internets, you know, stuff like that. The link is in the show notes or you can go to troypodcast.com/newsletter. Do it.
Miguel: It’s good for you.
Christina: It’ll make your teeth whiter.
Miguel: [Laughs] And back to the show.
Miguel: All right, so, let's get into the next one.
Christina: Poverty’s Paradise.
Christina: We are now in 1995.
Miguel: So, with this album, I liked it better than 19 Naughty III.
Miguel: Because this one has my favorite Naughty by Nature song on it, which is “Feel Me Flow.”
Christina: I didn't know that was your—your favorite song? Or favorite on the album?
Miguel: No. My favorite—
Christina: Naughty By Nature song.
Miguel: Naughty By Nature song.
Christina: That's interesting you say that because I was watching the video and that's what prompted me to say we should do an episode on Naughty By Nature. ‘Cause when I was watching it and just listening to Treach, I was like, this is really good. As if I haven't been listening for, you know?
Christina: But I was just like, hmm. You know how I'm always like, complaining how people will be like, so and so, is so underrated?
Christina: And it's like, they're not underrated. People just don't talk about them anymore because it's 30 years old.
Christina: But then I was listening to that and I'm like, I think he might be underrated because I don't think I hear him in the, you know, top five rappers or whatever discussion very often.
Miguel: That's because he's not top five.
Christina: Or like, you know, your favorite, whatever, like. I just don't hear him as part of these types of conversations.
Christina: Whether it's top five, top 10, faves, whatever, right?
Miguel: Yeah. For me he is.
Christina: And I was like, yeah.
Miguel: Like, I would put him not top five.
Miguel: But maybe top 10 to 15.
Miguel: Depending on the day.
Miguel: Because depending who I listened to last.
Miguel: Like, I was listening to it today, so, I would say the Treach is somewhere between five and 10. Next week when I haven't listened to it, he might be number 13.
Miguel: Yeah, but “Feel Me Flow” is my favorite Naughty By Nature song of all time.
Christina: That song always reminds me of summer, even though the second half of the video, they're in the mountains.
Miguel: They’re in the snow.
Christina: But I guess 'cause since it started in summer, that, that's just like ingrained in my mind.
Christina: I do like “Feel Me Flow” a lot. In terms of this album, I'm kind of jumping back and forth between that and “Craziest.”
Miguel: Yeah. I like that one too.
Christina: They have a different sound, so I think it might depend on mood.
Miguel: Yeah, exactly. And that just kind of goes into what I've been saying about them from the very beginning of this episode, is they don't make sense. Like, you will follow in the track listing, you'll follow “Feel Me Flow” with “Craziest.” But it makes sense somehow. It works.
Christina: I guess because, despite having pop hits or more danceable hits, maybe it's because they remain the same.
Christina: Like, this isn't a Pitbull, Mr. 305 to Mr. Worldwide. Like, there were no—
Miguel: They’re not running around in like, white, three piece linen suits.
Christina: Yeah. Like, Treach will wear that chain. Whether he's doing “Feel Me Flow” or “Craziest.” We keep saying Treach, Treach, but like, all of them.
Christina: Well actually, Poverty's Paradise ended up winning a Grammy for Best Rap Album. And that was the first time that the Grammy's had that category.
Miguel: I did not know that.
Christina: Yeah, I saw it in a interview, which we can link to. And they were saying how like, because it was so new, they just had to get their Grammys in the back 'cause it wasn't televised. They weren’t—
Miguel: Yeah, I forget when they started televising like, rap and hip hop Grammy’s.
Christina: So, they didn't get to be part of the ceremony, and he said that, uh, I can't remember which one. I think it might have been, Vinnie, but they found out, they won from another nominee. I can't remember which person it was.
Christina: But they were just like, Hey, congrats, you won. And they were just like, oh, okay.
Miguel: Oh, that's funny.
Christina: Yeah, I'll, I have the link to the interview. I'll send it to you and we can post it on the website.
Miguel: I will.
Christina: That was pretty interesting. I was just like, oh, I didn't know that. So, yeah, that's a pretty big deal to win the first of that category. I think I was surprised by that because it was 1996 and I knew that they had other rap category—they had started to put some rap categories?
Miguel: Yeah. Jazzy Jeff and the Fresh Prince won the first one.
Miguel: But they boycotted because it wasn’t being shown on tv.
Miguel: And that was, I don't even remember, like 90-91. Somewhere in there.
Miguel: So, by ’95, this is, they still weren't airing it?
Christina: Right. Well, the album came out ’95, but they won in ’96, so kudos to them. Even though they had to come in through the back door.
Miguel: Here's your gift bag and your award. Get the fuck out.
Christina: Don't wander into that auditorium area, ‘cause—
Miguel: Yeah, we don't have any seats.
Christina: Ya’ll ain’t part of this ceremony.
Miguel: We don't have any seats for you.
Miguel: But you can go pick your bag up over there. So, the next album is my favorite album—
Miguel: Of theirs. Because it's probably the most consistent like, sounding album. And that's Nineteen Naughty Nine: Nature's Fury. I love it.
Christina: Oh, okay. Well, this features “Jamboree,” which I've been singing for the last hour.
Christina: That song I actually don’t like.
Miguel: Which is weird.
Miguel: ‘Cause I think that you would like that.
Christina: Because Zhané is on it.
Christina: Um, I think to me it kind of feels like they were like, ooh, “Feel Me Flow” did good. Let's do another thing like that.
Miguel: I can see it.
Christina: That’s what it feels like. So, I was like, I can just listen to “Feel Me Flow” instead of “Jamboree.”
Miguel: But the difference for me is like, in production wise, KayGee was like, heavy in his R&B bag at this point.
Miguel: So, a lot of the stuff he was doing for like Zhané and Jaheim and Next kind of filtered into this album.
Christina: Right. To me, this album sounded more polished.
Christina: And it had like, a lot more features.
Christina: Like, it sounded more like a, an “industry” album, if that makes sense.
Christina: Like, we’re here now.
Miguel: But it works for me because with the other albums, I'd say I like half of them, but the songs I like are like, major hits.
Miguel: Whereas with this one, I'm just looking at the track listing right now, from one to eleven.
Miguel: I only skip song 10 with Krayzie Bone on it.
Miguel: I’m letting the rest of it run. And like I was mentioning with the last album, with “Feel Me Flow,” going right into “Craziest.” This one, it's kind of going back and forth because you have like, “Dirt All By My Lonely” going into “Holiday,” which is another dance along song.
Miguel: R&B flavor, it goes into live and— “Live Or Die.” So it's just kind of bouncing back and forth between gutter shit, pop shit. But it works.
Christina: I think I, I had something in my notes and I think I accidentally deleted it. Is this the album with the song with 3LW on it?
Christina: Oh, that's the next one.
Christina: ‘Cause I was gonna say in terms of pop…3LW?
Miguel: Yeah. Like, this one has, Krayzie Bone, Big Pun, Next, Zhané. Unfortunately, Silkk the Shocker is on “Live Or Die,” but Mystikal makes up for it. Like everything that Silkk takes away, Mystikal ads to. So, they balance each other out with that one. But this is by far my favorite Naughty by Nature album.
Christina: Okay. I can't say the same because I am not familiar with this album. I think around this time I just, I don't know, I missed out on it. Like, I know “Jamboree” and I know “Dirt All By My Lonely.” But the rest is like…
Miguel: I’m sure if you listen to it, it would be familiar.
Christina: Okay. ‘Cause I kind of skimmed it real quick before we started recording, but I was going through it to see if I recognized anything else.
Christina: Because I knew “Jamboree” and I knew “Dirt All By My Lonely,” I just assumed I'd know the album. But I guess I didn't listen to it.
Miguel: All right.
Christina: So, I'm gonna have to give it another listen.
Miguel: Yeah, get familiar with it. So, I'm not gonna ask you what your favorite song is on this album because you don't have one probably
Christina: I don’t. Because I didn't like “Jamboree” and I know “Dirt All By My Lonely.”
Christina: But I wouldn't call it a favorite.
Miguel: Yeah. For me, I'm gonna go with “Ring The Alarm.” That's my favorite one on this album. Either that or “Work.”
Miguel: Those two.
Christina: I will revisit.
Miguel: They're one A and one B.
Christina: Okay. Well, I'll know nothing about IIcons except for this 3LW. Which is the next one, which I jumped the gun a little bit.
Christina: This came out in 2002.
Miguel: That makes sense because this is kind of where I was jumping off as well.
Christina: And KayGee jumped off of this one too.
Miguel: He did, as some of you know, maybe you don't, but the three of them have issues like, kind of staying together sometimes. And this is when KayGee left the group for an album. But then he came back on the next one. But that's the album where quote unquote Treach fired Vinnie.
Christina: Uh huh.
Miguel: Because he's not on any songs on Anthem Inc. But they are able to keep it together enough for them to go out and tour and make money.
Miguel: Because they got these anthems that the people want to hear.
Miguel: But anyway, let's get back to the IIcons album.
Christina: I kind of skimmed through it, but it was very quick and I don't know, like even though KayGee doesn't rap, it still felt like something was missing to me.
Miguel: It’s his production. Like, it doesn't sound like what Naughty By Nature was known for because he wasn't there.
Christina: Right. So it just felt off for me. And I still can't get over the 3LW was a little weird because they were like 15, 16 or something at the time.
Miguel: I don’t remember.
Christina: Yeah, I was watching the video and I was looking at their little faces in the video with them and you know, you talking about, they look like they're dirty and whatnot, etcetera.
Christina: And then you got these little, like 15 year olds dancing around. It was just felt weird.
Miguel: Yeah, I can see that. I can see it.
Christina: Singing “Feels Good.” Like, ugh.
Miguel: Yeah. This one I didn't like as much either, so I really didn't go back to it much.
Miguel: Like, Nineteen Naughty Nine was the peak for me.
Miguel: I really didn't play this one much. Or Anthem Inc , I think I've heard Anthem Inc. One time.
Christina: That's one time more than me. I stopped at IIcons 'cause we were getting ready to record and I was like, there’s no point 'cause I don't know this.
Miguel: Yeah. The only songs—actually I have listened to Anthem Inc. I remember listening to it when it first came out cause all the hits that we know, they have like, updated versions of them.
Christina: Oh okay.
Miguel: So, they're not remixed too much, but they are different versions and they're re-recorded. So, “O.P.P.,” “Hip Hop Hooray”, “Everything's Gonna Be Alright.”
Christina: Oh, hence Anthems Inc.?
Miguel: Yeah. So, they got all the hits on there.
Miguel: Plus some new songs. So, I did listen to it as I'm looking at the track listing now.
Miguel: But like I mentioned a couple seconds ago, they are still touring constantly because of, kind of like what we do with this podcast, nostalgia is a thing for people in our age group.
Miguel: So, they are in big demand, so, they're constantly on tour with like, New Kids on the Block, Salt-N-Pepa.
Christina: All these ‘90s, nostalgia tours.
Miguel: Yeah. Debbie Gibson and Tiffany was on the last one.
Christina: The fact that they can tour with like, Debbie Gibson and Tiffany is hilarious. I mean, it's one thing from them to tour with like, Salt-N-Pepa, but—
Miguel: New Kids on the Block and Tiffany and Debbie Gibson.
Miguel: And all these ’80s pop acts.
Christina: I can even let New Kids slide because of their beginnings.
Christina:There is, uh, an overlap. But Debbie Gibson?
Miguel: It’s that—
Miguel: That MTV generation that we all grew up in.
Miguel: So, we got to see a lot of it.
Miguel: And Naughty By Nature was in that mix. Like, I wasn't listening to Tiffany, but I still know—
Christina: I was!
Miguel: All those songs.
Christina: A couple songs. “I Think We're Alone Now.”
Miguel: I shouldn't know the words to “I Think We're Alone Now.”
Christina: “I think we’re alone now.”
Miguel: I shouldn't know that, but I do.
Christina: That was the transition.
Miguel: That's when you were heading out.
Christina: Yeah. Like, I know all those songs, but—well, maybe it does make sense that they're touring together 'cause I was listening to that.
Christina: And then boom, “you down with O.P.P.?”
Miguel: That is my point. MTV brought all of this stuff together.
Christina: I didn't have MTV at the time, but MuchMusic, whatever.
Miguel: Well, I, I mean just in general though.
Christina: Music video channels.
Miguel: Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, they're still touring. They're always on the road. Even though they can't get along sometimes. They can put their differences aside to get out and entertain the people.
Miguel: I did watch, well—let me take that back. I tried to watch their interview on Drink Champs from two years ago, I believe. If you want to hear the beginnings of Naughty By Nature, watch that interview, but it's gonna be difficult for you. Usually the difficulty is with N.O.R.E. making a bunch of noise and interrupting people.
Miguel: But this time it's Treach. like from the very beginning, he's just off his ass, drunk.
Christina: He's slurring.
Miguel: Yeah, he's slurring. He's interrupting everybody. So, it's a little hard to get through because of him. But Vinnie and KayGee are on point. Surprisingly, N.O.R.E.’s on point 'cause he hasn't started drinking yet. But it gives you a good idea of how they all came together.
Christina: I probably won't watch it, but you can give me the Cliff's notes.
Miguel: It's an hour and 20 minutes long, and I've been watching it for five days now. So, I'm trying to get through it myself. But like I said, it gives you a good background on how they all came together. If you can stand Treach in this interview. I've seen other interviews with Treach where he is sober. He's perfectly fine.
Christina: Yeah, I saw one with Sway. It was fine.
Miguel: But this one, this one's a struggle.
Christina: What was it that he kept saying? “Translation!”
Miguel: “Translation!” It's like, nobody's even paying attention to you. He's just yelling over people for no reason at all. But also, this is funny as shit as well, he is touring as Nino Brown in that stage version of New Jack City. You've seen the flyers on Twitter.
Christina: I forgot already.
Miguel: Yeah. There's a stage version of New Jack City that started last year.
Christina: I wanna see it.
Miguel: And Treach is playing Nino Brown. Allen Payne is playing G-Money.
Miguel: Big Daddy Kane's in it. Gary Dourdan is in it and someone else is in it.
Christina: I'm that, um, that gif, I would like to see that.
Miguel: Oh, Flex. Flex Alexander.
Miguel: They're all in the stage version of New Jack City.
Christina: I wanna see it.
Miguel: Hey, if it comes to Toronto, I'm getting tickets.
Miguel: I'm not gonna make the effort to go see it, but if it comes through, I'm going.
Christina: I'll go outside for that.
Miguel: Yeah, I will get us some tickets and we can go check it out.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: That's pretty much all I have for our Naughty by Nature roundup. Got anything you want to add before we get outta here?
Christina: I wonder if somebody did see me in that t-shirt and was like, what the fuck? I don't remember getting no—
Miguel: I'm gonna say no just because of where you were.
Christina: I think—I feel like someone has, you know, at least read the t-shirt and was like, “down with O.P.P.,” but I don't remember it being reprimanded though.
Miguel: See, if you were in Vancouver, probably someone would've said something. But being in Abbotsford, you were able to fly under the radar.
Christina: I was.
Miguel: Cause your parents definitely didn't know
Christina: They definitely didn't know.
Christina: Stumbling upon hearing a couple cuss words.
Christina: Coming from my boombox is one thing, but they didn't know what the hell I was wearing.
Miguel: Yeah, so they definitely didn't know.
Christina: Hey, sometimes it helps when your parents don't speak English.
Miguel: There you go.
Christina: You can get away with some shit.
Miguel: Exactly. So, I think we need to wrap this up because I just got the low battery notification on my laptop.
Christina: Ok. Alright bye!
Miguel: No, we don't have to go that fast. But yeah, we should wrap it up and uh, yeah I don't know what else to say if you have something.
Christina: I don’t.
Miguel: All right. Since you have nothing. I'm just gonna say to go to troypodcast.com. Check out the playlist, check out the transcripts, check out the links that we're gonna post from the things that we talked about in this episode. The videos that we watched, the interviews, all that good stuff. Hit us up on social media at @troypodcast on the bird and the ‘gram. Uh, we are setting up accounts on all these other random social media, so we'll get that to you as well, since Twitter might be imploding at any moment.
Christina: I don't know. It seems to be hanging on.
Miguel: It's hanging on but…
Christina: By a thread?
Christina: I guess. Oh, there is one thing that I wanna say. Whenever I hear “Uptown Anthem,” I can see Tupac dancing around in that all red outfit.
Miguel: Yes. With his UNLV jacket on.
Christina: Yes. And I don't know, like, it's just ingrained—like, “Uptown Anthem,” Tupac in this red outfit. I don't know. It was tangent. Whatever.
Miguel: Makes sense. On that note, we out. Bye.