They Reminisce Over You Podcast

Jeffrey Wright cover art for episode 73 of the They Reminisce Over You Podcast

Aug 9, 2024

Episode 73 Amy Winehouse: What Kind Of F*ckery Is This?

Episode Summary

In this episode, we are talking about singer known for her distinct singing voice, candid songwriting style and very personal lyrics. Her impact and legacy on the world of music is why we're discussing the late, great Amy Winehouse. An artist who was rooted in jazz, but had R&B sensibilities with a sprinkle of hip hop. Her debut album Frank showed us the potential that would eventually be reached on the classic Back to Black. Although she left us in 2011, her music lives on.


Transcript

Miguel: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You, I'm Miguel.

Christina: And I'm Christina. And today, we're gonna talk about a singer who is known for her distinctive voice, very candid songwriting, and very personal lyrics.

Miguel: That's one way to put it.

Christina: Yes. Amy Winehouse. “Amy, Amy, Amy.” That went on longer than I anticipated. Anyways, although the point of this podcast is to give people their flowers while they're still here, which is why we haven't talked about it before. But at the same time, her music just left too much of an impact. So we decided to make an exception, and we're going to celebrate her legacy today.

Miguel: Exactly.

Christina: So you ready to get into it?

Miguel: Let's do it.

Christina: What was that voice?

Miguel: That was me trying to be you.

Christina: Oh, okay. That's what I sound like? Let's get into it.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So just a little background about Amy Winehouse before we get into her music, Amy Jade Winehouse. We are almost birthday twins.

Miguel: Almost. Couple days apart.

Christina: Yes. She's born in September 14th, mine's the 16th. Maybe that's why I love her so much.

Miguel: Nas as well.

Christina: Yeah. So they are birthday twins. So as I'm sure most people know, she's a singer-songwriter and her music is mostly jazz, but she's mixing genres. There's some soul, a little bit R&B. We got a smattering of hip-hop.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I don't know much about specific musical terms, but when I was reading her Wikipedia, it says she has a unique contralto vocal.

Miguel: That means nothing to me.

Christina: Well, I wrote down the definition. It means it's a type of classical female singing voice whose vocal range is the lowest female vocal type, which I actually found it interesting because I never thought of her voice as sounding low.

Miguel: I can see it.

Christina: Yeah, after thinking about it, I was like-

Miguel: Because it's not necessarily high either.

Christina: Yeah, so that's that. But she also just grew up in a jazz background. So she had a couple of uncles who were jazz musicians. Her grandmother had dated a jazz musician. Her parents listened to jazz all the time. So this was just her upbringing.

Miguel: It was in her.

Christina: Yeah, she was born into it. But she was also a kid growing up in the 90s. So not surprisingly, she also listened to R&B and rap.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: And she loved TLC and Salt-N-Pepa so much that she was inspired to start a rap group with her best friend.

Miguel: Yeah, Sweet ’n’ Sour.

Christina: Sweet ’n’ Sour. She was like 10, 11. She was Sour.

Miguel: Of course, she had to be.

Christina: Yeah. The rapping career didn't go anywhere, but she did stick to music, attended theater school, kept on singing, got a guitar when she was 14, started writing songs. Like, yeah, at 14, I was trying to copy dance moves off of videos and she was learning guitar and writing songs. So, long story short, by 2002, she got a management deal with Simon Fuller, who is the creator of all those Idols TV shows.

Miguel: Yeah, and all the pop stars from the UK.

Christina: Which is really interesting because she's the exact opposite of this sort of like formulated pop acts, and she's like the other end of that spectrum.

Miguel: Yeah, I saw an interview with her and they asked if she was going to go down that path. And she's like, no.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: They know what I am. And if they don't like it, then they don't have to put me out.

Christina: Yeah. She's like, I don't bow down to nobody. And that's a running theme.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: Yeah. So that eventually led to her meeting Salaam Remi and putting out her first album, Frank.

Miguel: Named after Frank Sinatra.

Christina: Yes. You know what? I never even thought about why the album was named Frank.

Miguel: I just assumed it was because of her attitude.

Christina: I read that too. Someone was like, she is very frank. So I don't know. Maybe it was a double entendre.

Miguel: That was my assumption. But apparently, according to Salaam, it was for Frank Sinatra. Because she makes a couple of references on both of her albums about Frank Sinatra. And there you have it.

Christina: So Frank was actually released in different years in different countries.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So it originally came out in 2003 in the UK.

Miguel: And that's around the time I heard it.

Christina: I am pretty sure I heard Back to Black first. So I don't know if we, we could still go in chronological order.

Miguel: I think so.

Christina: Okay. So yeah, I'll get back to Back to Black. But this album, of course, as I was saying, it's very jazzy. And it's also kind of the term that everyone hates, a little bit, neo-soul.

Miguel: Yeah, it's got some hip hop elements to it.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Think Baduism.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: It's very much like, her version of Baduism.

Christina: Yeah, because they even— their voices aren't the same, but they have that lilt. I don't know if I'm saying that word properly, but there's just kind of like this, this thing in their voice.

Miguel: Yeah, I know what you're saying.

Christina: So definitely there is some reminiscence of Erykah Badu.

Miguel: Yeah. And you can see that she was influenced by that, too.

Christina: Yeah. Which, I mean, her song, “You Sent Me Flying,” she's definitely listening to Erykah because the first line is “Lent you Outsidaz and my new Badu.”

Miguel: Yeah. So she's listening to The Outsidaz. Most people listening to this podcast probably don't even know who The Outsidaz[1] are.

Christina: Maybe, I mean—

Miguel: They weren't very well known.

Christina: If you know Rah Digga.

Miguel: Yeah, you know Rah Digga, but you probably don't know that she was part of The Outsidaz. That's what I'm saying.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: You may know them from a song on the Fugees album, but no one really knows The Outsidaz, but obviously Amy was a fan.

Christina: And she lent it to her ex-boyfriend.

Miguel: Yes. Lent them both to him at the same time.

Christina: So that's why I was saying this album and her sound is a smattering, a smidge of hip-hop in terms of these references. And some of the samples are stuff that we hear in hip-hop, but the way it's used in this album, it's not like a Mary J. Blige kind of fusion. It's just like a recognizable hip-hop sound, but the songs itself, they're not really hip-hop. They're more like the neo-soul type.

Miguel: The only one that is, oh, this is a hip-hop song in terms of like hearing it with the sample is the “In My Bed.”

Christina: Because it's the “Made You Look” sample, so. I'm waiting for someone to be like, “Braaaveheaaarts.”

Miguel: Exactly. And that video[2] you sent me of Salaam Remi talking about making both of them, he said that someone was going to do an R&B song over this, so it might as well be him and beat people to it. So that was the reason why he made this for her.

Christina: Yeah. And it's just hilarious because he played, I can't remember what was “In My Bed” now or another song, but he played the recording session because he was trying to get her to sing faster, to match the beat and she kept messing up and cursing him out.

Miguel: Oh no, it was on Back to Black, and what song was it?

Christina: “Tears Dry On Their Own?”

Miguel: Yes. Yeah, it was that one.

Christina: One of the more up-tempo, a song that was originally slow and they made it more up-tempo. All right, we'll get back to that.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: All right, so back to Frank. She came out hot with Frank. The very first song is “Stronger Than Me.” The very first lines is, “You should be stronger than me. You've been here seven years longer than me.”

Miguel: Right.

Christina: It proceeds to take down this man for the rest of the song about just being a little bitch basically.

Miguel: The rest of the album too.

Christina: Yeah, the album is mostly about him.

Miguel: Yeah, I remember hearing this back, probably ’03, ’04, ’05, somewhere in there, when I was still working on cruise ships. We were just sitting around listening to music one night, and somebody from the UK put this on. I'm listening to it. We're just sitting around chatting and drinking and whatnot, and I'm hearing this, but I'm not talking to anybody about it.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: I’m like, what is this? Because I'm listening to what she's saying, and I had never heard anything like this before. And nobody else is talking about it because they know the album because it's been out for a while, so it's new to me. And I'm like, what is this?

Christina: OK, so that makes sense why you heard Frank when it was released, because it wasn't released in the US until like 2007.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Like, they released it because Back to Black was so popular.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: Okay, that makes sense.

Miguel: And even when Back to Black came out, I didn't realize this was the same person because they're sonically so different. But yeah, at the time, I'm like, what am I listening to? And every song that just kept going, and she's kicking off these lyrics that are just degrading sometimes. And then she's talking about herself. And I'm like, what am I listening to? And then when “In My Bed” came on, I was sold at that point. And I remember a couple of days later, I asked the person whose CD it was, what was that you were playing the other night? She just told me what it was. And that's when I started listening.

Christina: Yeah. I mean, this song has a lot of quotables. I mean, well, this song, but the whole album in general.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Because “Stronger Than Me,”I just put down that first line. But I mean, I would just sit here and quote the entire song.

Miguel: You can. Because like I said, I'm listening to it like, what is this?

Christina: Right. And she's like, what? Like, I think about 18 when this album came out.

Miguel: I think she was like, 19 when it was recorded.

Christina: Okay. And she had started writing some of this stuff.

Miguel: And she had just turned 20 when it came out.

Christina: But some of this stuff she had written before that.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Well, the thing that I always remember is, okay, so, you know, this is dating us. But this was back when we were still using like, Instant Messenger, right?

Miguel: Right.

Christina: And so back then, most of us would like log in. But if we were not at our desks or at our computers, we would put an away message.

Miguel: Of course.

Christina: For, you know, those who might be too young to know what the hell I'm talking about. So, I mean, I think the away message was just sort of like our Instagram captions, where you would write something cute.

Miguel: Yeah, I could see that being similar.

Christina: So I remember this because I did not know who Amy Winehouse was at the time. Never heard the song. So from “You Sent Me Flying,” she has a line. “His message was brutal, but his delivery was kind.” And my friend had that as her away message. I can't remember if I ever asked her about it, but I remember, like, I remember it just being like, damn, right? “His message was brutal, but his delivery was kind.” Damn.

Miguel: Like, who did something to her and she didn't tell me about it?

Christina: Yeah, so.

Miguel: I think the next time you talk to her, you should ask her about it.

Christina: Actually, we're supposed to meet up in a few weeks, so I might have to bring that up and see if she remembers. But yeah, when I finally heard the album, I was like, oh…

Miguel: That's what she's talking about.

Christina: This is a song. But yeah, I just remember that to this day, and it just makes me laugh every time I hear it in the song. But I think that's one of the things that I love about Amy so much is like, her lyrics are very poetic, but they're also very real. They're like, relatable for people who don't usually read poetry. Like, there are a few lines where I'm like, I'm not sure what that means. But it's not so abstract that you're just like, what?

Miguel: Yeah, what is she talking about?

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Yeah, it's not like that.

Christina: Yeah. So it's poetic in the sense that like, you know, it just sounds great. “His message was brutal, but his delivery was kind.” But I totally understand what she means.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Like, I can think about it, but it's not like, oh, I'm so confused. What does that mean?

Miguel: Especially because the rest of the song wraps up what she's talking about anyway. So it's not like, what is she talking about? Like, she's obviously talking about a relationship and not getting what she wants from this guy who was here seven years longer than her, apparently.

Christina: Oh, no, this was on “You Sent,” oh, well, yeah, it's the same guy.

Miguel: Yeah, same dude, though.

Christina: Yeah, same dude. Well, if we're talking about quotables, let's talk about “Fuck Me Pumps.

Miguel: Yeah, this was another one where I'm looking around the room and I'm like, nobody else is tripping off what she's saying? Because I thought it was hilarious.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And I just found out that Salaam Remi said this is the only song that she didn't write herself.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: He started writing the song and then—

Christina: Yeah, she just kind of re-worked it

Miguel: She came back and filled it in. So it's funny knowing that it came from him, actually.

Christina: And I think what's also funny, so, I mean, if you don't know the song, she's just basically dragging the girls.

Miguel: Yeah. If you're a club girl, she's making fun of you.

Christina: Yeah. You're one of those girls in club trying to land yourself a baller.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: That's who she's making fun of. And it's just great. Again, if I wanted to quote her quotables, I would just read out the entire song.

Miguel: You could. The entire song is a quotable.

Christina: I was just talking to you about this the other day, which I thought was hilarious because she was like, if they're not in the club, these men will just have to go home to their wives.

Miguel: Oh, yes.

Christina: Can you imagine being a man, a married man on the prowl and there's no girls and you have to just be grudgingly go home to your wife?

Miguel: “Without girls like you, there's no nightlife.”

Christina: There we go.

Miguel: “All those men just go home to their wives.”

Christina: But that's not even one of the cutting lyrics.

Miguel: It isn't.

Christina: Talking about “your big empty purse.” “You can't sit down because your jeans are too tight.”

Miguel: You're lucky that it's ladies night so you get in free.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: It's all sorts of evil things she’s saying.

Christina: You say “you don't like ballers, but you wouldn't mind a man who's six foot two or taller.”

Miguel: Right.

Christina: But you know what? It's funny. She doesn't sound like a hater though.

Miguel: No. That's the funny thing about it. It doesn't sound like she's hating. She's just commenting on what she sees.

Christina: Yeah. I mean, the video[3] is almost whimsical.

Miguel: It is.

Christina: It's the most whimsical video that you've seen. Of all the videos I watched from her, I would say that one's the most whimsical and here she is just dragging the girls.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: So I was reading this article, this old article[4] from The Guardian. Someone did a profile with her like around the time of Frank. And he was just saying that, you know, this kind of jazzy soul sound usually is “reserved for songs that are more soothing or like old fashioned love. But from Winehouse, you get Fuck Me Pumps, a witty ditty about late 20s trashy girls on the make, hanging out in dodgy clubs and gangs, aspiring to marry a footballer. She's from the London streets and she sings in that language, but from the viewpoint of an old fashioned girl. Her words, not mine.” I think that's a pretty good summary.

Miguel: Yeah. And what's funny is after she was signed and the album didn't come out immediately, she's still performing in these jazz clubs.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And she's performing these songs. So imagine you go to a jazz club. You are a jazz fan and you hear about this new, young jazz singer that's coming up and you get in there and she starts singing about “Fuck Me Pumps.” “Don't get mad at me because you're pushing 30 and your old tricks no longer work.”

Christina: Yet, she sings like an angel.

Miguel: Right. So imagine sitting in a club and you're like, what's going on here? Am I being punked? Because we know jazz fans typically are older. And here she is, this 19 year old, singing about 19 year old stuff. But in the style of like, Billie Holiday or Dinah Washington.

Christina: And Sarah Vaughn.

Miguel: Yeah. So I know that was an interesting contrast. And people are like, what are we looking at?

Christina: Oh, that song. I love it, though. Oh, and then, okay, I mean, not just the girls. Anyone can get it. I mean, well, it's mostly the ex-boyfriend, though.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: “I Heard Love Is Blind.” This is also a great one.

Miguel: Again, you’re sitting in a jazz club and you hear her singing about. Yeah, I cheated on you, but he looked like you.

Christina: He looked like you, so it don't count.

Miguel: And it was dark. So it was you, in my mind.

Christina: But it wasn’t you.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: And she's making it seem like it's no big deal.

Miguel: Yeah, just oops.

Christina: Yeah. “You're everything. He means nothing to me. I can't even remember his name.”

Miguel: So that makes it okay.

Christina: “You left me here alone.”

Miguel: So this is your fault.

Christina: “I pretended he was you,” and then to end the song, “but I heard love is blind.”

Miguel: Yeah. Just put a nice little bow on it.

Christina: Yeah. So it's definitely, it's like, a well-rounded album in the sense that you got lyrics, you got beats, you got vocals. Yeah, like, it's everything.

Miguel: And what's funny is, and I find this a lot with a lot of my favorite artists, the stuff that we like, they tend not to like.

Christina: What do you mean?

Miguel: Because I saw an interview with her where she says that she only likes like, 80 percent of this album.

Christina: Oh, yeah.

Miguel: Only because of some of the arrangements were changed and some decisions made by the record company that she didn't actually like. So she didn't even have a copy of it in her house because she didn't like that much of it.

Christina: I want to know what she didn't like because I saw that quote too, but she didn't go into detail about the 20 percent. I'm curious as to, to what she wasn't happy about.

Miguel: I don't know. And we'll never know.

Christina: And we’ll never know. Hey, jinx. But now I can't jinx you because if you can't talk, then we can't continue with the podcast.

Miguel: Exactly.

Christina: All right. Well, I mean, we've been going on and on about her lyrics and the song “Stronger Than Me” did win this British award, Ivor Novello Award, which is like a British Academy of Songwriters Award. So they noticed that in her right away.

Miguel: Yeah. Even with the controversy.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: They were like, you know what? This is actually good.

Christina: It's really good, actually.

Miguel: Minus some of the content.

Christina: All right. One more thing before we move on. That same interview in The Guardian. Talk about realness. This is the same interview where she showed up in her ballet flats that were so worn out that a toe was poking out. Yes. And he said that he was trying not to look at it.

Miguel: But you have to look at it. You're trying to not look at it. It's just like in Austin Powers when the guy had the mole on his face with the hair in it. We're not supposed to talk about the mole, but it's right there.

Christina: So you can always count on Amy to just be herself.

Miguel: Yeah. I want to know what event she came from, because the article said that she had just performed somewhere.

Christina: Oh, it was the next day. I re-read it. Yeah, yeah. The event was like the day before or something.

Miguel: Okay, I thought she had just come from the event.

Christina: Yeah, because when I went to re-read it, I remember us having this conversation. They were different days. I mean, still, she's going outside.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But I guess she really loved. Well, I've seen these pictures. She loved those ballerina flats.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I don't remember seeing a toe poking out.

Miguel: It's possible.

Christina: All right. So that was the first album, Frank. And for, for most of us outside of the UK, I think most of us probably hadn't heard of her or was too familiar with her until Back to Black.

Miguel: Yeah. And like I said, I didn't even realize it was the same person when I saw “Rehab” playing on MTV, but I was having the same reaction. Like, what did she just say?

Christina: Yeah, that's the first song that I remember hearing because Frank was actually released in Canada in 2004.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: So it wasn't that long after the UK release. So I can't remember for sure if I had heard of her, but I remember “Rehab” being the first song.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: At least that's how my memories work.

Miguel: Yeah. For her to open and say, “they're trying to make me go to rehab, but I said no, no, no.”

Christina: Yes. I was like, what is this?

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Like, is this a joke? Like, I didn't know how to process it.

Miguel: And then as the song keeps going, she gets more defiant about it. Y'all want me to go to rehab, but my daddy say I'm fine. So fuck y'all.

Christina: And like the video, she's just got the empty bottles and stuff and just got her feet up on the desk. She's just like, I ain't going.

Miguel: So by the end of the song, again, I'm hooked. My daddy say I'm fine, so I ain't going to rehab. I don't care what y'all think.

Christina: It's not my favorite song from the album, but it definitely piqued my interest.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Because I was just like, this person is so different.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I was actually watching an old Entertainment Tonight segment with Mark Ronson.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: And they had some behind the scenes footage of recording “Back to Black” and he said that she wrote all the lyrics and melodies in two or three hours. She just, I guess, needed to get it out and it came out. And just the interviews between him and Salaam Remi, like, she was very much a one take mostly kind of recording. Like, she would just feel it and get it out.

Miguel: And it sounds that way. Like, it's not overly polished. And you can feel that she's singing with a lot of emotion. I saw one of Salaam Remi’s interviews that I watched and I been meaning to go back and listen to the song and I don't remember what it is right now, but we'll link to it where he says that she did it in one take and she starts crying at the end and they left that in the vocal. So I need to go back and listen to it.

Christina: I watched that too. Now I can't remember which song it was either.

Miguel: So we'll have to link to it on the website.

Christina: Yeah. So this one maybe perhaps you didn't make the connection because this one had a different sound. So she's definitely still the jazz influence, but she had more of that 50s, 60s girl groups sound.

Miguel: Yeah. It's very Motown-like and stuff from that era. So I don't even remember when I finally made the connection that these were done by the same person, but it took a minute.

Christina: Yeah. I think “Tears Dry On Their Own” is a pretty good example of this Motown sound. And also, as I was saying about her lyrics being poetic, but not so much that it goes over your head. But I was just thinking about her saying, you know, “He walks away, the sun goes down. He takes the day, but I'm grown.” It's like, damn, he walks away, and the sun and the day is gone now? But I'm grown. My tears dry on their own. And then I was also saying that I was 20 something when I was listening to these albums. And it's perfect for 20 somethings who, you're dealing with these stupid relationships. Like, the line where she was like, “I should be my own best friend, not fuck myself in the head with stupid men.” Like the way she said it, I was like, I get it, girl.

Miguel: See, I liked it for a different reason. I like the honesty that she was putting into it. It was a little too honest sometimes because she's talking about, again, cheating. She's talking about doing a lot of drinking real hard and I need to stop drinking. And then she's like, I'm drinking again. So it was probably a little too honest, but it still worked though, because it was so good.

Christina: Yeah, and like you feel her authenticity, authenticity, like even if you are not personally dealing with these things, you can hear it in her voice and you can't help but like it.

Miguel: “I love you so much, but it's not enough. You love blow. I love puff.”

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: Who says this?

Christina: I think that's probably why “Rehab” was probably like my least favorite song on this album because it's just about, I'm not going to rehab.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: And as much as it's ear-catching and interesting and stuff, it's like, so far from my personal experiences. But like the other stuff with the soulful energy and like, in her voice and stuff, you can't help just, just feel it with her. I was actually thinking about it in terms of like, these two albums in a way kind of remind me of Mary J. Blige.

Miguel: Yeah, I can see the connection.

Christina: Yeah, in the sense of like, they both have the ability to make you feel emotions about things that you may or may not have experienced.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: And the stylistic differences between the two albums also kind of reminds me of What's the 411? to My Life.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: Because in What's the 411?, you know, she talks about the relationships and this and that and you've got her sound. But then when she transitioned to My Life, it just got, oh, now she has some more life experience. Right. And it's more personal. And there's a bit more of a polish. And I feel like that was how Frank transitioned into Back to Black.

Miguel: Yeah. Yeah. I feel the same way about it because like I've been saying, it's very honest, it's very open. But at the same time, you can feel what she's saying.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Like, everything she says, she means this shit.

Christina: Yeah. Like, she does melancholy and sassy very well.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: But you believe her.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: You could tell, like, these are personal songs. Even if she had co-writers or whatever, like these are her songs.

Miguel: And as far as the co-writing goes, as far as I've seen, that's just like a little nudge here and there. But for the most part, she's just knocking these out. I saw Salaam Remi say that he had just bought this house in Miami. And she came to the house to record. And she's sitting in the living room, and was like, I'm recording right here. So they set up all the equipment in the living room.[5] And he would leave and come back. And she's just sitting there writing and strumming the guitar and coming up with all these lyrics. And he's like, yeah, this was just pouring out of her.

Christina: Yeah, it's wild, like, just watching the people that she worked with talk about it, because like, who does that?

Miguel: All at the same time doing all the drugs and drinking all the alcohol.

Christina: But I guess it's like, even despite all of that, because obviously she's doing that to numb the stuff that's going on in her life. So it's the drugs and the music. So even if she's doing all of that, it doesn't stop the emotions that causes her, I guess, to like, want to put it out there. Just like, get it out.

Miguel: Yeah, I was thinking about that when I was just listening to some of the songs and it's like, you're writing this stuff and then going to drink afterwards because you're saying it in the song.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Like, I'm going to go get drunk now because I feel so bad.

Christina: I don't know. I think it's just like, that's why she's such a rare talent. It almost feels like, why do these rare talents always have to be so tortured?

Miguel: Right.

Christina: But at the same time, if they weren't, what would the music sound like?

Miguel: Yeah. I was actually thinking yesterday, if she was still around and was able to make that transition like Mary J. Blige did, what would that Amy Winehouse No More Drama-era sound like? What would she have gone on and done after that? What would be the new thing? Would she still do the 60s influenced stuff? Would it be more jazzy? Would it lean more into hip hop? What would we have gotten moving forward?

Christina: She seems like such a jazz girl. I feel like that would always be there.

Miguel: Yeah, but that would be the basis. But what would it sound like sonically around the jazz influence?

Christina: Yeah, I was actually feeling sad because I mean, I listened to her music pretty regularly over the years. But I think because when we're preparing for this, I'm actually really thinking about it.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: And I feel sad that we'll never know.

Miguel: And because it's not like she left hundreds of songs like Tupac did. We got what we got. There were a few that were sprinkled up on the Lioness album, but that's pretty much it.

Christina: Yeah, because the Lioness album is just basically a compilation of a couple of things she recorded and then some of the demos.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: I do love, well, I guess we're moving on to the Lioness album. I do love her cover of “Will You Still Love Me Tomorrow?” Because like I was saying, she does Melancholy really well. So the original song is the, the Ronettes, Ronettes? I don't know. Is it them? Wait, wait. Is that song theirs? Wait, no, I can't remember. I'm getting it confused.

Miguel: I don't know. Look it up.

Christina: I did. And then I forgot.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: I'm just going to look it up to make sure. Oh, no, it was the Shirelles.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Okay, so I was wrong. It was the Shirelles, but she liked them all.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: But anyways, you know, there's this like, that 60s girl group, pop sound, and she made it more melancholy. I don't want to say sad because it's not quite sad, but there is some sadness. But it's like, she's almost pleading more like, “Will you still love me tomorrow?” Whereas the original song was more of just a question like, hey, if we keep going down this path, you still going to love me tomorrow? But with her, it feels more like she's saying, don't leave me, rather than, will you still love me tomorrow? And I just really like this version.

Miguel: Yeah, the album as a whole, I would say I don't like it as an album.

Christina: Yeah, because it just sounds like a playlist, because it sounds like a bunch of random songs, but—

Miguel: Each song is really, really good.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: I like them individually, but as a full body of work, I don't like it.

Christina: I mean, it is a compilation.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: This is just here's what we have.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: Because it makes more sense when you watch the video, this Hidden Treasure Story[6] that you sent me, where Salaam Remi is just talking about a little background about each song and why they chose it to be on the album.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: So when you watch that, it makes more sense. But if you're just listening to it, it's just like a mishmash of songs.

Miguel: Yeah, because I had listened to it a while back before we even started recording this and it's all over the place.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: But you can tell which songs were done when. Like, “Half Time” is very Frank and “A Song For You” is Back to Black. So you can tell which era all of these songs come from.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And I do like the original versions of “Wake Up Alone” and “Tears Dry On Their Own” over the album versions.

Christina: I don't know if I like it over, but I like them both for different reasons because well, one version is up tempo and the other version is slow. So I guess it's probably more mood would determine which one I would like better. Am I feeling melancholy today?

Miguel: Right.

Christina: Or do I want, you know, a cute bop?

Miguel: Yeah, I just like the instrumentation on these versions over the ones that were released on Back to Black.

Christina: The originals definitely have a little bit more emotion to it because those are her original recordings, right?

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: So there's that. Then there's like the new song, “Like Smoke” With Nas. And I like it because, well, I'm a Nas fan, but it did sound out of place.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But Salaam put it in perspective. He was like, he liked the idea of continuing to incorporate Nas because in Frank she had “In My Bed,” which had the “Made You Look” sample. And then in Back to Black, she literally has a song named after Nas, “Me & Mr. Jones.”

Miguel: Yes. And speaking of, I need to go back to that because the song is hilarious. And the way she's just, again, tearing down her boyfriend for one.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: Making her miss the Slick Rick show.

Christina: Yeah, that's it. I forgot about that. I meant to mention that to with her little like, her music is not hip hop, but she lets us know that that's also in her.

Miguel: Yeah. So she's upset about him missing that.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And then she says, Nas is performing in Brixton. I'm not missing that shit. So you need to get your shit together because this is my man. And I'm going to see him by any means necessary because you messed up the last time.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: I'm going to see Nas when he comes to Brixton.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And again, another true story from what I read. Her boyfriend was supposed to get her on the list to see Slick Rick and it didn't happen. So she was pissed off about it when they were in New York.

Christina: Right.

Miguel: It was like Nas is going to be in Brixton. I'm going to see Nas[7] and you go make it happen.

Christina: “Me & Mr. Jones,” okay?

Miguel: “What kind of fuckery is this?” You got me out here missing Slick Rick and I'm going to see Nas.

Christina: She is the queen of, I was going to say one-liners, technically one-liners, but her one-liners is like, the majority of her songs. Yeah.

Miguel: And I read that “Fuckery” was supposed to be the title and they're like, no, we can't do that. We can't do that.

Christina: You're doing too much.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: That's hilarious.

Miguel: Since she did mention it three times in the song.

Christina: Right. That is funny. OK, so now that we've gone through her, technically three albums, two albums plus compilation. You wrote this question and I think it's too hard to answer, but I'm going to ask you first.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: If you had to choose one song that represented who Amy was to you, what would it be?

Miguel: Like you said, it is difficult and I have a short list, but I will give you my choice.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: So “You Sent Me Flying,” that's a choice. “Fuck Me Pumps,” that's another choice. “You Know I'm No Good.” would probably be my answer. But I'm going with the original version of “Wake Up Alone.”

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: That one kind of pulls everything together. Just because the instrumentation doesn't overpower her vocals too much. And the way she sings it is just beautiful. So I'm going with “Wake Up Alone.” The Lioness version.

Christina: The original demo. All right. Well, the reason why I said this was a really hard question was you said to choose one song.

Miguel: Yep.

Christina: And the reason why I think one song is hard is because I think there's two types of Amy songs.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: You got the sassy upbeat song.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: And it was between “Fuck Me Pumps” and “You Know I'm No Good.” But I went with “You Know I'm No Good.”

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: And then you have the heartbroken, melancholy, slow songs. So for that, I chose “Love Is a Losing Game.” And then if I had to pick one song that kind of combined sort of the sassiness with the heartbroken type songs, I actually picked “Love Is Blind.”

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Even though she's not heartbroken in that song.

Miguel: She is not.

Christina: She's being very sassy. But I think because she sings it in the style of a love song or like a ballad, that that's like, combining the ballad type songs with her and her little sassy lyrics.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: So that's my list.

Miguel: All right. So are there any artists that you think have a similar style to Amy Winehouse that you would suggest people listen to? I know there's not going to be anyone who does it lyrically, but just style of singing or the production or something like that.

Christina: You know what? This was really hard too, because I think Amy really is one of one.

Miguel: It's true.

Christina: The closest I could come to. So I have a few kind of close-ish. So I already mentioned Erykah Badu, even though she came out before Amy. But if you kind of like that voice.

Miguel: Yeah, I think that counts because, like I said, it's a similar musical style that you would suggest. So it doesn't have to be equal.

Christina: Yeah. And Erykah gets a little sassy too.

Miguel: She does.

Christina: I think she's close. I also think Adele is kind of close in the sense that she kind of has that slight little thing in her voice too. The only thing for me is for some reason, I like Adele as a person. She seems like a hilarious, fun person to be around. Don't like her music.

Miguel: Yeah, I'm not a fan, so I can't speak on Adele. The only thing I know about Adele are these big pop songs that you hear in TV and when you're shopping at the mall.

Christina: So I feel like there is a slight similarity, but if Amy was more pop.

Miguel: Right.

Christina: Because for me, Adele, when the first song, which I think was her first single, was “Rolling in the Deep.”

Miguel: No, that was from her second album, I believe.

Christina: Well, whatever. That's the first song I've heard from her, and it's a lot funkier than a lot of her other songs. I remember hearing that. I'm like, oh, I can get into this. And then I listened to the album and I was just like, hmm. So I'm not really sure what it is about Adele for me, even though she's like, you know, one of the biggest stars ever.

Miguel: Yeah, for me, it's just too pop.

Christina: Yeah. But I do think that there is a bit of a, what's the word, overlap a little bit. She also has, which I just discovered, Adele has a song called “Love Is A Game,”[8] which in an interview, she did say it was kind of inspired by “Love Is A Losing Game.”

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: And when you listen to that, it does kind of, you can hear that there's some influences. But again, hers is just more like, big pop ballads.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I think I need it to be a little funkier. For me to like Adele's music, I think it has to match her personality or what I see of her when I see her out there.

Miguel: And we're not getting that in her music.

Christina: I need the finger guns, Adele.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: But I do think that there could be an overlap, though, between fans. And Solange actually has an album that incorporates that 60s style, the Sol-Angel and the Hadley Street Dreams.[9] There's some sort of like, that 60s girls group vibes in there. And I think the person who is probably the closest in terms of the sound is her goddaughter, Dionne Bromfield.

Miguel: I meant to listen to her stuff, but I didn't get to it.

Christina: There was one song that I really liked called “Foolin’”.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: Other than that, I watched a couple things here and there. I don't really know her music very well. But there's that song “Foolin’”[10] and I just seen her do a couple of covers and stuff. And she sounds really similar.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: But yeah, I mean, that's as much as I can get because I think she's just one of one. All right.

Miguel: All right, I’m going to go with someone who she's older than Amy, but she was putting music out for a long time. And she actually, Amy's instrumentation on the Back to Black album. Mark Ronson used this band as the band on the album. Sharon Jones and the Dap Kings. Sharon Jones passed away a couple years ago, but the music is very similar where it's a 60s girl group, type of vibe. So that's one. Also, Hannah Williams, she's another UK singer. You may know her from “4:44” from Jay-Z. One of her songs, “Late Night and Heartbreak,”[11] basically built the foundation for “4:44.” But similar to Amy, this song is very I ain't shit.

Christina: Yes.

Miguel: Because she's basically telling her man that I don't know why you love me. Because I'm terrible.

Christina: I'm no good.

Miguel: Yes. So that's another one. Andra Day is similar to Amy Winehouse, but she tends to drift over into the Adele category every now and then as well. But she has a little bit of that in her. And another UK artist. Basically, her current album[12] is a combination of Frank and Back to Black, Marsha Ambrosius. DJ R-tistic described it as “Illmatic: The Musical.”

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: And that's what this album sounds like. She's scatting all over the place. She's very jazzy, but it's built on this like opera slash hip hop foundation. So that's got a little bit of Amy in it too, especially with some of her lyrics. Like she's got a song called, “I Hope She Cheats On You With A Basketball Player.” So that's another one that you guys can check out as well. And we'll link to all of this stuff on the website.

Christina: Yeah.

Miguel: All right. So is there anything else you would like to say before we wrap this up about Amy Winehouse?

Christina: Well, when I was doing the research for this, I started to, you know, read different articles and stuff and blah, blah, blah. And then I just like, you know what? I don't even want to revisit or bother discussing some of those other things. I was like, it's been long enough. I'm just going to focus on the music.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: So the only thing I would say is like, if you do want to do like more research on her, we know about her troubles through her lyrics. You don't need to read about that crap. It's much more rewarding to either watch her old demo videos, old performances, or interviews with her producers and stuff.

Miguel: Yeah, the good stuff.

Christina: Yeah. All that other stuff just is useless at this point.

Miguel: Yeah.

Christina: Oh, I do have a fun fact.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: She actually won an injunction[13] against a paparazzi agency out in the UK.

Miguel: Okay.

Christina: To ban them from following her around. And I was like, oh, that's pretty big.

Miguel: How do you stop that?

Christina: Yeah. I can link to their article. Okay.

Miguel: I want to check that out too.

Christina: This happened in 2009. So they were banned from following her around. And they had to stay, I think, more than 100 feet from her house or something like that.

Miguel: All right then.

Christina: Yeah. I'll send you the link and we'll link to it on the website.

Miguel: The only thing I want to add, and it's not a fun fact like that. But I will say that if you see any of the remixes that have rappers tacked on to them, don't listen to them because they're bad.

Christina: Okay.

Miguel: The “Rehab” remix, Jay-Z just comes in talking about shoes and cars and trying to relate his addictions to making money and being rich to her actual addictions. It's like you listened to this song one time before you wrote this verse, Jay-Z and Ghostface, it just doesn't fit. Lik,e his verse doesn't fit on the song. So yeah, if you see Amy Winehouse featuring insert rapper, other than Nas, the Nas ones work. Yeah, just skip them. And that's all I got to say.

Christina: Okay. Um, I just forgot. I was going to say something.

Miguel: All right. On that note, we can wrap everything up here. Thank you again for listening. We try to do this every two weeks, although this is going to be our last episode for a while

Christina: For the summer.

Miguel: Yeah, we're taking the rest of the summer off.

Christina: And plus my birthday.

Miguel: We're doing some trips for Christina's birthday. So we'll be back in October with brand new episodes. So I'll be putting up some older stuff. There will still be things for you to listen to and to check out. But yeah, we ain't record no new shit until October. But you can also go to our website and check out some of the playlists that we put together for our episodes. We'll definitely have one for this. So make sure you check that out. I'm not going to put any of the rap versions on. Actually, I am going to put the rap versions on just so you can hear it the one time and never listen to them again.

Christina: Put them right at the end.

Miguel: Yeah, it's going to be at the end. Also, you can buy some merch at our store, Tee Thang. That's Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang, teethang.com. You can get yourself hoodies, hats, t-shirts, mugs, all sorts of accessories. So go check that out. It's not just podcast stuff. We have other pop culture stuff there. So go get you a Kelis t-shirt or a Martin Lawrence t-shirt. And we got a Teddy's Jam t-shirt coming that's brilliant. So look out for that. Also, we have a newsletter called Liner Notes. You can sign up for that at our website as well. troypodcast.com/newsletter.

Christina: That's the best way to stay up to date.

Miguel: Yep. We'll still have those coming, even though we're not recording new episodes. So there will be new liner notes coming out in September and October. Look out for that. Sign up. Get all the good stuff in your inbox once a month. It's Free.99, so you don't have to pay for it. And that's all I have. We are at almost an hour.

Christina: It'll be edited down. We were yip yapping.

Miguel: Yeah, it'll be edited down to about 40 minutes or so. Maybe 35, who knows? But yeah, come back for new episodes in October. And as Rihanna's cousin said, listen to that old shit in the meantime, and we'll be talking to y'all in a little bit.

Christina: I can't find that clip anymore.

Miguel: She had it scrubbed from the internet.

Christina: I guess, so maybe I just don't have the right search. Anyways, we saw it happen.

Miguel: Yes.

Christina: I remember watching that video.

Miguel: All right. We out of here.

Christina: Bye.

Miguel: Bye.