Episode Summary
The reports of hip hop’s demise have been greatly exaggerated. In recent months, we’ve heard plenty about its supposed decline, yet these critics overlook the genre's deep influence across other musical landscapes—from K-pop and country to mainstream pop. Hip hop has become so ingrained in our culture that now, simply because it’s no longer viewed as an “underground” genre, it feels like it’s fading. In this episode, we’re exploring the misconception about hip hop’s role and relevance in today’s pop culture landscape. Later in the episode, we talk about our favorite rappers-turned-actors, and we also discuss why Snoop Dogg is one of the most popular artists (of any genre) to ever live.
Transcript
Christina: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You. I'm Christina.
Miguel: And I'm Miguel. Over the years, we've talked about the evolution of hip hop and how far it's come from the days of mainstream media saying it was a fad to it being the dominant genre in pop music and pop culture. That's what we're gonna discuss on this episode, how hip hop has become pop culture.
Christina: And elevator music.
Miguel: Yes, elevator music, background music. It's everywhere.
Christina: It is.
Miguel: And that's what we're gonna talk about, so you just wanna jump right into it?
Christina: Let's do it. So according to the 2017 findings from the Nielsen Group, that was the first year ever that hip hop and R&B music has surpassed rock music as the most consumed music genre in the US.
Miguel: I'm actually surprised that it took until 2017 for that.
Christina: Yes. Because, you know, there have been periods of mainstreaming, but I guess it's official. It was official in 2017. So, I was watching one of these, like, Billboard Explains video and they were saying that one of the reasons is because of streaming. So, I guess just having easier access to it, which we've talked about a lot, you know, especially for me when I was younger. Some stuff was a little bit harder to find, but now everything's just on the internet.
Miguel: Except for the things that I really want. Like, there's always one album from a group's discography that just isn't available for some reason, but we can discuss that some other time. Yeah, I really want the Future Rhythm album from Digital Underground to be back on streaming, but I digress.
Christina: Well, that's for a different reason. So, yeah, according to these findings, 2017 was the official year, and we've definitely seen, I guess, different iterations of mainstreaming. If that makes sense, like the way we see it now, as we sort of just mentioned at the beginning, is it's become more normalized.
Miguel: It seems to be the default for everything.
Christina: Yeah. Whereas the other periods before, they were sort of used to add a coolness factor.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So it was definitely mainstream, but it was still kind of not normal because it was, there was always like an asterisk. It's like, yeah, everybody knows the song, but it's “cool.” And not just like, oh, this is just the song we chose for a commercial, for example. You know what I mean? Does that make sense?
Miguel: I'm going to say that in 2024, hip hop has officially become the official language of North America. I don't know why, I just wanted to piggyback off what you were saying. Sprinkle that in.
Christina: Okay. So let's talk about some recent examples.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So there were some that, as I was saying, it doesn't feel like it was necessarily used for cool, for example. There's a Jeep commercial that plays “California Love.”[1]
Miguel: Right. Which was surprising to hear. But not surprising at the same time.
Christina: Yeah. And like the commercial itself, it just seemed like that was the song that they chose for the feel of the commercial. Instead of like, hey guys, we're using a rap song.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: And I think another good example of that is that Amazon commercial.
Miguel: I was really surprised by that one.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Because it's not like “The Champ,” well, we're talking about Ghostface. “The Champ” was played in an Amazon commercial.[2] It's not like that song is like a huge crossover hit.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So hearing that in an Amazon commercial was shocking to me. Because I remember I just had my head down because I was watching football and I hear the beat starting to play. I'm like, whoa, what was this? And I picked my head up and I see that it's an Amazon commercial where two twins are competing with each other.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And that's when it hit me how mainstream that this thing that we grew up loving has become.
Christina: And I think that might be because our generation are the people out here working at these places now who get to make these decisions.
Miguel: Basically.
Christina: Whereas in the earlier years, we weren't in places where we could do stuff like this.
Miguel: Yeah. And it's funny to me that all of these things are happening around us. At the same time, we're reading and seeing articles[3] about the demise and downfall of hip hop as if it's actually going anywhere when it seems to be getting bigger. There were some, like I mentioned, some articles last year talking about how there hadn't been a hip hop album on the top of the charts for like the first six months of the year. That was the first time in who knows how long. But I think that has to do more with the quality of music that's coming out rather than the genre itself.
Christina: Yeah. I think when we or other people talk about the demise of hip hop, I think there are two things, as you're saying, the quality of the music itself. And I think also the origins of it being a subculture, rather than that it's just disappearing.
Miguel: Yeah, because a lot of the examples that they use to justify the quote unquote demise of hip hop are people who actually use hip hop as part of them. For example, Bad Bunny is one of the biggest artists in the world, but he seems to be categorized as either reggaeton, which is heavily influenced by hip hop, or pop, but never hip hop when it's obvious that he is of the hip hop generation and that's what he's putting out there. He never seems to be categorized that way. And the same thing happens with Doja Cat. She's making hit records, but she's seen more as a singer rather than a rapper, even though she's got some boom bap rap songs on a couple of her albums. She's never considered to be hip hop.
Christina: Yeah, I think she herself, I mean, I don't really listen to a lot of Doja Cat, but I think with the last album, it seems like she's trying to be like, no, I want to be hip hop.
Miguel: Yes, that's true, but it's still not being categorized that way. She's still being labeled as a pop act rather than a hip hop act. So that contributes to the quote unquote decline of hip hop, when you're blurring genres, but not giving credit to hip hop side of it, if that makes sense.
Christina: You got um… which you always laugh at, I have my little Apple fitness classes that I do, and sometimes you'll be walking by while I'm doing some Pilates or yoga, and you'll just be like, what? What is that that's playing?
Miguel: Why is Wu-Tang playing? I thought you were doing yoga.
Christina: Yeah, like the other day, it was actually the, well, they have played Wu-Tang. Sometimes they'll play the song. Sometimes they'll just play the instrumentals. But specifically, it was Method Man's “Bring the Pain” instrumental. And I'm just stretching doing my yoga. And even though it's the instrumental, like I can hear what Method Man is saying in my head.
Miguel: Yeah. Same.
Christina: You know, at the very end of the song where he's just kind of saying stuff.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: And I'm just thinking about what he's saying versus what I'm looking at.
Miguel: Yeah, it doesn't make sense.
Christina: Yeah. It's less surprising with some of the more like upbeat workouts, like say a running workout or strength training workout.
Miguel: Yeah, but yoga and Pilates.
Christina: Yoga and Pilates is funny. And as I was saying, the difference is it's just background music. This isn't like a “yoga and trap” class. It's like, we're cool because we listen to trap music and stuff. And we got tote bags. Like it's literally just, you know, what you if you haven't used Apple Fitness before, you could choose whatever workout you want to do, but also what genre of playlist. So they do have like the hip hop/R&B playlist. They have like rock playlist or whatever. So yeah, you can choose what genre you want to listen to. But again, it really is just used as background music to your workouts. And also what's interesting about the, the Apple Fitness instructors is they don't act weird when the hip hop music comes on. Because I've done other workouts where when a rap song comes on, they start saying, “yo,” and start doing rap hands and stuff. Whereas these instructors, they're just, we're just working out. And sometimes they'll use the radio friendly versions and sometimes they don't.
Miguel: And that's always entertaining to hear.
Christina: It's weird because even though for us, me and you specifically, like this is something that we have spent our whole lives listening to, but we still recognize when we're in quote unquote “mixed company.”
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So then when we hear it in “mixed company,” it's like, oh!
Miguel: It's not supposed to be here. How did this get in? Who let you in?
Christina: Yeah. And like we're seeing it in wrestling commercials. LL Cool J was on the Progressive Insurance commercial.[4]
Miguel: Yeah. Queen Latifah has been selling Cover Girl for 30 years.[5]
Christina: Right.
Miguel: Yeah. So hip hop is everywhere these days.
Christina: I think one of the craziest times we've seen it was in some cereal commercial. I can't remember what cereal commercial it was and I can't find it, but they were playing LL's “Milky Cereal.”
Miguel: Yeah. I want to say that it was a Honey Nut Cheerios commercial. That's how I'm remembering it.
Christina: And that we're just like, okay—
Miguel: Highly inappropriate.
Christina: Who let that slide through? So in that instance, I'm thinking because as mainstream as it gets, there is still a layer of—
Miguel: You have to know.
Christina: Yeah. Certain subset of people still don't necessarily understand it because—
Miguel: You can only understand it on a surface level. You don't actually understand like the double entendres and different meanings to things.
Christina: As much as he says “milky cereal” and it sounds like it makes sense, that is so inappropriate.
Miguel: It has nothing to do with cereal.
Christina: For a commercial that may even pop up when kids are watching their cartoons.
Miguel: Exactly. It was definitely targeted to kids because most cereal commercials are not targeted to us. It's targeted to the kids.
Christina: So my theory is the person who chose the song was kind of like, hey, let's see if I can get this through. The people who okayed it had no idea what LL was actually talking about.
Miguel: Yeah. I'm 50-50 with that one. I lean, okay, I'm going to try and sneak this in and see if I can get away with it, or someone who is just completely clueless and only hearing “milky cereal.” Either way, I'm happy with it.
Christina: So we're definitely seeing hip-hop in just a lot of mainstream media, movies, TV shows, and all that. Is there anything else you want to add to this section?
Miguel: Not to this, but just like I mentioned Bad Bunny earlier, there is hip-hop in other genres of music as well. Again, it might not be reflected in the music, but the style of the artists and everything about them says hip-hop.
Christina: It's definitely an influence, like all of these K-pop bands is definitely rooted in hip-hop and R&B. They're the only boy and girl groups. We don't have that in R&B anymore.
Miguel: Yeah, they've disappeared.
Christina: I think that's probably why K-pop has also become so mainstream, even though they don't even sing or rap in English most of the time.
Miguel: There's just been a void for pre-teens and teens to look at.
Christina: The choreographed dances and with like, this one's my favorite, that one's my favorite. So I don't know much about K-pop since I don't listen to them. But I heard this Megan Thee Stallion song and I was like, who is this guy that sounds like Slim Thug? Not rapping in English and it's one of the guys from BTS. I actually looked it up. The song is “Neva Play” featuring RM from BTS[6].
Miguel: I know RL but I don't know RM.
Christina: “We can't be friends.”
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Anyway, yeah, so I looked him up and I'm like, this is what he sounds like. This is what he raps like. I was just like, wow, how does this guy from a K-pop boy band sound like Slim Thug?
Miguel: Yeah, like he was part of Swisha House back in the day.
Christina: He has his deep voice. He's got the semi, kinda the accent.
Miguel: Yeah, there's a definite drawl because like you said, he sounds like Slim Thug.
Christina: But it sounds good.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like it doesn't sound, I mean, I guess at some point it's copying or influence, but like if you just listen to it, it just sounds fine.
Miguel: I just thought about it. I'm not going to say that it sounds fine, only because I don't know what he's saying.
Christina: That's true.
Miguel: He could be saying a bunch of terrible bars, but I don't know it. Aesthetically, it sounds like he's rapping his ass off. But until I can confirm what he's actually saying, I will give him a C.
Christina: A C?
Miguel: Because I don't know what he's saying. I'm going to reserve judgment on how good it is until I hear what he's actually saying.
Christina: Right. But in terms of just how it sounds, it's crazy to think of, like I said, a K-pop rapper sounding like he's from Houston.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Yeah. So there's that. Also, I've seen a lot of country artists incorporating almost like trap beats or hip hop sounds, and not just the Black country artists. Like it's also just seeped into what has always been considered a very white genre.
Miguel: Yeah. What was the song I sent you the other day with Sir Davis in it? The guy was covering “Burn” and it was called “Whiskey Burn.”
Christina: Yes. And then he had Beyonce’s Sir Davis Whiskey in the video.
Miguel: And we'll link to these on the website as well so you can check them out.
Christina: He is covering “Burn.”[7]
Miguel: I was not expecting that at all.
Christina: “Whiskey Burn.”
Miguel: “Whiskey Burn” to be specific.
Christina: Yeah. So I guess what we thought of hip hop traditionally, I wouldn't say it's dead, but it is, it's changed.
Miguel: It's definitely changed.
Christina: Which for some makes it feel like it's dead.
Miguel: Which doesn't make any sense because it's everywhere. So it can't be dead if it's like the default now.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: No matter what type of music you're making, hip hop is the baseline and the default that you build around.
Christina: And even like not just in music, but it's influenced fashion and aesthetics. Because you got Billie Eilish out here, dressed like she's one of Dem Franchise Boys.
Miguel: I saw someone say that Billie Eilish dresses like Murphy Lee from the St. Lunatics and I haven't been right since.
Christina: And the thing that's funny is like her music isn't even remotely, like to me, the few bits that I've heard of Billie Eilish, like her music isn't even very, like it doesn't even have any notes of hip hop or R&B.
Miguel: I need to see her snapping her fingers with the big t-shirt.
Christina: Yep.
Miguel: If you're going to do it, do it all the way.
Christina: A little “Laffy Taffy.”
Miguel: Yeah. Put Fabo in the video.
Christina: She definitely looks like she's about to snap her fingers.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: I saw someone say something like she wants to wear a durag so bad.
Miguel: I've seen her wearing a durag.
Christina: Okay. Well, there you go.
Miguel: I've seen her with a durag underneath the hat.
Christina: Yeah. And like just the other day, I asked you if you wanted this Tupac T-shirt that I saw on H&M.
Miguel: I definitely don't want a Tupac T-shirt from H&M. Looking all prim and proper and demure. I don't want that. If I'm getting a Tupac T-shirt, it's going to be of an album cover or him spitting at the camera. I want the real Tupac, not the watered down 2024 version.
Christina: I'll make you an illustration.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: Yeah. So it's weird just seeing how these like aesthetics have just leaked into sort of just fashion in general with a lot of people, not even really understanding where it comes from. It's just become everybody's style. And we were just talking about this yesterday. Slang. Gen-Z slang is not Gen-Z slang.
Miguel: It isn't. It's stuff that Black and Brown people have been saying for the past 40 years. We were walking down the street. We were in DC for a couple of days. And there was this young white lady sitting on the corner, talking to her friend on the phone, saying that she got the tea on somebody's boyfriend and how they were going to have to talk about it. And I'm like, you don't have anybody's tea. You don't even really know what that phrase means.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: I'm not going to say anything. I'm just going to keep walking.
Christina: And I'm over here going, “what's the tea?” Quoting a song from 1981. But it's Gen-Z slang.
Miguel: Gen-Z slang, internet speak.
Christina: You're going to tell me a bunch of 16 year olds of today came up with that? Right.
Miguel: All on their own without hearing it from older people.
Christina: Yeah. So I guess one of the things that happens, like on one hand, it's nice that this isn't considered such a weird thing anymore. But on the other hand, what happens when you have a bit of mainstreaming is you lose a lot of the history along the way.
Miguel: Yeah. That's my biggest issue with it is not that outsiders are using it, is that we're getting further and further away from where it started, and that's not being acknowledged.
Christina: Yeah. Because on one hand, I think it's kind of cool that I could be in a waiting room and hear, “I Like the Way You Move” playing on the little radio. But on the other hand, if you got some girl going, “what's the tea” and thinking it's Gen-Z slang, that kind of sucks. Yeah.
Miguel: So hip-hop losing, it's not credibility, but it's history.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: It's being washed away with it becoming more and more mainstream. That's the issue that I have with it.
Christina: Right. It's weird because in some cases, hip-hop has become a marker for gentrification. Like if you go to the gentrified Brooklyn and you see the “spread love, it's the Brooklyn way” signs, you know that that's new Brooklyn. That's not old Brooklyn, even though they're quoting Biggie.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: But you see that and you're like, oh God, I know where I'm at.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: So I mean, I guess the best thing that the people of the original part of the culture can do is keep trying to push the history behind it and hope that somebody listens.
Miguel: Yes. All right. I think that's a good spot for us to take a break, and we'll be right back.
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Miguel: You're just sitting at home on the couch anyhow.
Christina: All right, thanks.
Miguel: Back to the show.
Miguel: Okay, we are back from our break.
Christina: And we're going to continue this conversation about the mainstreaming or crossover of hip hop culture. And one of the areas we've seen this happen is acting.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: So there are many rappers turned actor. And some, the actor label is a little loose because…
Miguel: Yeah, it's a bit of a stretch. If, like, you're counting Master P as an actor because he funded a couple movies. I'm not doing that. He's not on my list of hip hoppers turned actors.
Christina: Yeah. But there are some, I don't want to say legitimate because that sounds a little mean, but there are some that have, like, fully immersed themselves into acting. Like Queen Latifah, LL Cool J, Ice T, Will Smith, etc. Do you have a favorite or favorite rapper turned actor or who do you like?
Miguel: Well, in terms of rappers turned actors, I don't think I have a favorite, but there are a lot that I like because obviously, I've grown up with them and seen pretty much everything they've been in. So, LL, I go back to the Robin Williams movie, Toys, that he was in. So, I've been watching him act and get better at it for 35 years now. I've never watched NCIS, though. Can't do it.
Christina: I looked it up. He has 323 episodes on NCIS.
Miguel: That sounds like a lot. I don't know if that's right.
Christina: I can't remember how many seasons it is, but...
Miguel: Yeah, that number don't sound right.
Christina: Let me open the link because it was straight from IMDb. One second.
Miguel: Because how many episodes are they doing per season?
Christina: But remember, with his stint on NCIS, I feel like that's the turning point when there is a certain demographic that doesn't even know he's a rapper or don't know much about his rap career. He's just that bald guy on NCIS. Okay. So let's see how many seasons. It says 323 episodes. So I'm looking at like, we're talking about 10 seasons here. No, 14 seasons and 15 years that the show has been on, according to IMDb.
Miguel: That's a lot.
Christina: Yeah. I don't...
Miguel: I've never seen one episode.
Christina: So maybe, I mean, I don't know, like, if he's been on all the seasons. So I'm thinking there's 323 episodes, period. But I'm pretty sure he's been on the show the entire time.
Miguel: As far as I'm aware.
Christina: Yeah. So that's a lot of seasons.
Miguel: I was not aware of that many episodes.
Christina: Yeah, that's not one of the shows that I watch. I might have seen... I'm sure I've seen an episode here and there, but I don't keep up with it.
Miguel: Yeah. Another one that I like obviously is Queen Latifah, going back to her days as Khadijah on Living Single, and all of the things that she's been in. I've seen most of it. I'm not going to say I've seen all of it, but most of the stuff that she's done over the years. I haven't watched The Equalizer either, only because it's on when I don't want to be watching it. It's usually NBA and NFL season when this is happening, so I don't want to waste my time watching Queen Latifah whoop ass. Another one, Ice Cube, because he's just basically playing himself in various roles. The funniest one was, what was it called? Fist Fight with him and Charlie Day, because Angry Ice Cube as a high school teacher is just hilarious to me, because he's the type of person that shouldn't be teaching anyone. But yeah, that was funny.
Christina: Well, another person who basically just plays himself is Ice-T.
Miguel: Yeah. Yeah. At least Ice-T admits that his acting is just another hustle. And he just happens to have found a job that will allow him to continue to hustle for 20 plus years.
Christina: You were talking about 323 episodes sounds like a lot. I looked up the SVU. He's been Tutuola in like 500 plus episodes.
Miguel: That's crazy.
Christina: Because I'm guessing, I mean, you know, the show has been on for a bajillion years, but, you know, they do the little crossovers and stuff, right? So he's, I'm sure he's shown up on the regular Law and Order and the other ones and stuff too. But it's hilarious because he's basically playing himself, but he's also a cop. So whenever he says, you know, like when people are, he's complaining about people coming at the cops, I'm like, I have to laugh every time because I'm like, you're the one who made the song “Cop Killer.”
Miguel: Right.
Christina: And him always doing those, “this is what the kids are doing” translations.
Miguel: Yes. Him being the youth translator of the show is always funny.
Christina: And he always has, they always give him the best little like one liners too.
Miguel: Yeah. One of which I'm not going to repeat right here, but you know what my favorite line of his is.
Christina: I don't remember actually.
Miguel: Yeah you do.
Christina: I'm going to have to beep it out.
Miguel: Yeah.
[music plays]
Christina: Okay. We can leave that part in.
Miguel: No, I'm not putting any of that in.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: So what about you?
Christina: Well, I do like pretty much everyone you mentioned as well. I see, I mean, he's done a few things outside of SVU, but I kind of put an asterisk next to him too, because unlike LL and Queen Latifah, they've done a lot of different kind of acting roles. They've had sitcoms, they've been in romantic comedies, one they've been in together, they've done like serious stuff, action stuff, so they're a lot more actor-y.
Miguel: Ice-T, he's done some non-cop roles.
Christina: Yes, but he hasn't done as much outside of SVU.
Miguel: You need to watch Surviving the Game, where he was a homeless man that was paid money to go out into the woods, and these rich white dudes were hunting him for sport.
Christina: Oh yeah, you told me, I keep forgetting, I've been meaning to watch that.
Miguel: You need to check that one out. It's not Ice-T playing a cop.
Christina: I guess once he got SVU, he was just like, I got a regular nine to five.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Why do I need to be out here stretching myself thin?
Miguel: Why do I need to be out here doing other things. So he had a bunch of very different roles up to SVU, but he settled in that and they give him a check every week and he keeps coming back.
Christina: Well, I wouldn't say that this person is my favorite as well, but I think this was a better choice for him to follow acting and that would be Mark Wahlberg, aka Marky Mark.
Miguel: Yeah, because the music was, when they talk about hip hop being a fad, what he was doing was part of this fad.
Christina: Because as much as New Kids on the Block was modeled off of New Edition, they could sing and dance. Marky Mark and his rapping was pretty mediocre. It was catchy, but he was not a good rapper.
Miguel: Not at all.
Christina: I might even go out on limb and say that that was his first acting role, was to play a rapper.
Miguel: Yeah, he was playing a rapper.
Christina: But I do like him as an actor, so I think it was good for him to just be like, you know what, let me just stick to acting.
Miguel: Yeah, because the fact that he was able to squeeze out a second album surprised me.
Christina: See, I don't even remember a second album.
Miguel: And he was definitely not getting to a third. So the transition into acting was a good call.
Christina: Yeah, because I like most. I can't think of anything specific, but most of the stuff I've seen him in, I've like.
Miguel: Yeah, he's able to do both comedy and drama. And like I said, that was a good transition for him. Yeah, a career defining transition because the music was not going to work out.
Christina: Right. Some other people that we've liked and watched is Mos Def. He doesn't do a lot. And of course, when I think of Mos Def acting, I have to think about that Dave Chappelle skit with the “don't drop the yellow cake!” With his goggles on.
Miguel: See, that's your first reference.
Christina: That is my first reference.
Miguel: I go back to Mos Def being on the Visa commercials[8] in the late 90s and on The Cosby Mysteries. I knew Mos Def as an actor before I knew him as a rapper. Because when I started seeing him on videos, I'm like, hey, that's the dude from that Cosby Mysteries or the commercial with, I think it was either Jason Kidd or Dirk Nowitzki in it, but it was some commercial where he was playing like a shopkeeper. But yeah, he's another one that I like when he does act.
Christina: Right. Which who knows what he's doing these days as a sovereign citizen?
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: We see him pop up here and there doing stuff.
Miguel: Yeah. He had a Black Star album last year.
Christina: Oh, yes.
Miguel: Which I refuse to listen to because Talib. I'll wait for the next Mos Def solo album.
Christina: Right. Another good one is, of course, my girl Mary J. Blige out here winning awards and stuff.
Miguel: Yes. She was Academy Award nominee Mary J. Blige.
Christina: Thank you very much.
Miguel: Yes. Queen Latifah has been nominated for Best Supporting Actress as well. Actually, I think she won best supporting actress.
Christina: I wouldn't be surprised.
Miguel: I could be wrong on that. I could be making the whole thing up, but she was definitely nominated. That I remember.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And she's not hip hop, but Jennifer Hudson has won an Academy Award.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: And she's done some acting over the years outside of that role that she won for. She was Carrie's secretary.
Christina: That was horrible.
Miguel: Sex and the City for a little while.
Christina: Well, she's got her own daytime show.
Miguel: Got a daytime talk show, not doing the music thing anymore because there's easier money in TV and movies and money you're not really sharing with 18 other people before it gets to you.
Christina: I just want to mention two more, Tupac, which every time we bring up Tupac, it always makes me a little sad because we'll never know what he could have been.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But as I always say too, he's so damn charismatic that any time he's on the screen doing anything, I'm just like, you know, in awe. Like I just want to watch him. So all the movies he's been, he's played a bunch of different types of roles too.
Miguel: He went from Bishop in Juice to, I forget the character's name, Bird, I think.
Christina: Yeah, in Above the Rim.
Miguel: No. Oh, yeah, he was Birdie in Above the Rim. His character in Gridlock’d when they were trying to get off drugs.
Christina: Yes. But it's like dark comedy getting blocked at every turn. Yeah.
Miguel: He was him and Tim Roth.
Christina: Poetic Justice, where he was. He played a couple of different roles in there, too, because he was like heartthrob, but also like, I don't know. I don't know how to categorize that, but Poetic Justice was a good one. Honorable mention to Ton Loc.
Miguel: The great actor Tone Loc from Ace Ventura, Pet Detective.
Christina: Yeah. Probably the biggest rapper turn actor is Will Smith.
Miguel: Yeah, by far.
Christina: Because he's like the summer movie star.
Miguel: Yes. If you want a summer blockbuster, call up Will Smith. He's going to get butts in the seats. He's been nominated for two Academy Awards and won one. And that's coming a long way from a dude that memorized the entire script for the first three episodes of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.
Christina: Yeah, which is hilarious because now that I know, I went back and watched the episodes because he was memorizing everybody's scripts because I guess he didn't want to like miss his mark.
Miguel: That's what he said. He just wanted to know what they were saying. So he knew when to come in.
Christina: Yes, you could see him mouthing the words when someone else is talking.
Miguel: He's just mumbling what they're saying and then he jumps in with his. So he said he memorized like the first three episodes.
Christina: Well, as big as Will Smith has become in terms of rapper turned actor, the real reason for this entire episode really was because you wanted to talk about Snoop.
Miguel: Yeah, I just needed an excuse to talk about Snoop Dogg because we typically talk about people that have kind of faded away a little bit or something that pops into our heads is like, hey, do you remember that? But we've never had a chance to, hey, do you remember that with Snoop because he's been here since 1992 and hasn't gone away.
Christina: Not only that, if we talk about mainstreaming and becoming part of popular culture, Snoop's career arc is one for the books.
Miguel: Yes. This man wasn't able to make eye contact with the camera in his first couple of videos, and here he is on TV selling, hosting, and doing all sorts of things.
Christina: Right. He's done some acting, but he's more of an influencer these days.
Miguel: That's exactly what he is. He's an influencer. Yeah, he does a few acting roles here and there, and he's pretty good at it. He's not a great actor, but he's serviceable.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But he's an influencer. That's what he is.
Christina: Right. And like to be labeled as the face of gangster rap.
Miguel: Yes. This man was on the cover of magazines saying, everything that's wrong with America, 30 years ago.
Christina: On trial for murder.
Miguel: Yeah. And here he is hosting the voice or co-hosting The Voice.
Christina: He's a media darling.
Miguel: Yes. That has to be the biggest transition.
Christina: Transition, but he's remained Snoop no matter what.
Miguel: Yeah, he's always Snoop.
Christina: He's still going to show up in some blue paisley outfits.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: It's not like he's out here tap dancing for the man.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: He's Snoop. No matter what.
Christina: He's still out here crip walking.
Miguel: Yeah. No matter what the product is, what show he's on, he's still Snoop and he's still C walking and throwing C’s up.
Christina: Right. Like he's doing commercials for a Skechers slip ins. But they made these shoes that look like something Snoop will wear.
Miguel: Yeah. They look like Chucks.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: They look like Chucks.
Christina: Like Skechers slip ins. That's to me feels very dad.
Miguel: Exactly. And speaking of dad, you sent me a video of Michael Bublé talking about how his kid loves Snoop.
Christina: And his kid's like five. Four or five, something like that.
Miguel: And he's trying to figure out why his daughter loves Snoop Dogg so much.
Christina: Because Michael Bublé is on The Voice with him. So he says something like his daughter was like, oh, are you going to see Snoop at work?
Miguel: He's like, yeah, how do you even know who Snoop is?
Christina: Right.
Miguel: And come to find out that her teacher is playing Snoop affirmations to the kids every day because he made some affirmations for his grandkids. And of course, they turned it into an album.[9] And now all the kids know Snoop Dogg.
Christina: Right. Snoop Doggy Dogg.
Miguel: Yeah. So they get up and get into class every morning with him leading them. “I’m going to be good. I'm going to be great.”
Miguel: And yeah, like you said, this is the guy that was on trial for murder and was everything wrong with America 30 years ago. And now look at him.
Christina: I was trying to find the most random endorsements that I could find of Snoop because he's everywhere.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And I think one of the weirdest ones I saw was from 2010. He had partnered up with Norton Antivirus.
Miguel: See, I completely forgot about this.
Christina: I didn't even know about this. I just found it. So the campaign was basically making a call for the public to educate themselves about hacking and cybersecurity. So they had a contest for people to submit their own rap videos and it was called “The Hack is Whack Contest.” And you were supposed to make, I guess, a rap video about cyber security. And I was reading this NBC news article. And it ends with, “so make those videos soon if you want to put a 187 on cybercrime. Church.”
Miguel: Oh God. Wow.
Christina: And this is before AI, so somebody wrote that.
Miguel: Oh man. That’s terrible.
Christina: Church! I was surprised that it didn't say nephew or something at the end just because. “A 187 on cybercrime.”
Miguel: Wow, oh man. Yeah, I think the most random thing that Snoop has done so far is carrying the Olympic torch at the Olympics this past summer, in Paris. Like he was the second to last person to carry the Olympic torch.[10]
Christina: Right.
Miguel: That makes no sense to me.
Christina: Among all the other hosting things he was doing at the Olympics.
Miguel: He was hosting all sorts of segments during the Olympics. But the fact that he was the second to last person to handle the Olympic torch during the Olympics is mind blowing to me. Snoop. And I'm a fan of Snoop.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: Muhammad Ali has done this. Snoop is on the same level as Muhammad Ali.
Christina: And like I said, national treasure. Like people love him. Everybody.
Miguel: Except Suge Knight.
Christina: Well, that's a different story. But all kinds of people love him.
Miguel: I've told you this before. My grandmother was 95 when she passed last year. Something like that. She knew who Snoop Dogg was and has known who Snoop Dogg has been for 30 years now. He is arguably one of the most famous people ever to live. Not just most famous rapper or person involved in hip hop. One of the most famous people ever to live. And that's not an exaggeration. Everybody knows Snoop no matter where you go in the world. People know—I saw one of these Japanese variety shows where someone was pretending to be Snoop Dogg. He kind of looked like him. He had the clothes and everything. They put him in blackface. They shouldn't have gone there.
Christina: Cultural differences.
Miguel: Yeah, they shouldn't have gone that far.
Christina: They don't understand blackface the way we do in North America.
Miguel: He did look a lot like Snoop. And Snoop actually posted it on his Instagram too. So he came out and did this horrible performance. But everyone knows Snoop.
Christina: That is hilarious. Yeah, I feel like every time we just turn around and we'll just see Snoop in something, and we'll just be like, was that a Grubhub commercial?
Miguel: Yeah. It doesn't matter what it is. I'm not surprised when I see him anywhere. Him and Shaq. If I look up and see them on TV doing anything, he's like, yeah, that makes sense.
Christina: Yeah. Shaq does a lot of endorsements, but Snoop is still just in all sorts of places that Shaq might not show up in. But Shaq is definitely up there with the endorsements, but Snoop is just…everywhere, just in places.
Miguel: Yeah. Even when I'm watching football on weekends, like college and NFL football, every weekend I hear a Snoop Dogg reference because over the past 15 years or so, he's had the Snoop Youth Football League and they're up to like 15 players that have gone through there that are now playing in the NFL and over 100 playing D1 college football. So there's even references to Snoop in sports. And like you said, he's just everywhere.
Christina: He is. And you may get slightly different versions of Snoop, depending where he is. But that's I mean, that's normal. Like when you're at work, you're a certain way. When you're at home, you're a certain way. But the essence of Snoop is still always the same. So the fact that he was the same person back in the 90s as he is now. But like, I don't know, like, how did this transition happen with the rest of the world?
Miguel: Yeah. He didn't change, the rest of the world change, which is crazy.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: You would think it would be someone who's a little more like palatable to middle America. But somehow middle America has come around on Snoop. Not just the what they call the border or the coastal elites.
Christina: He didn't become like from Mr. 305 to Mr. Worldwide. He's the same person.
Miguel: Yeah. He still—he didn't put on suits and try and change his image like Pitbull did.
Christina: Right. Like, obviously, there are still people who don't like him, but most of those people are usually racist.
Miguel: Yeah, exactly.
Christina: They wouldn't like him if he put on a suit. So that's not really the problem.
Miguel: No.
Christina: That's something else.
Miguel: So yeah, I think that Snoop is probably the biggest avatar for how far hip hop has come. From them saying it's a fad that's going to be gone in three to five years to it being the biggest thing in pop culture. Snoop is the face of that.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: In my opinion. If someone out there can prove me wrong and say that they're a bigger ambassador for hip hop and the hip hop culture, let me know.
Christina: And he's still putting out music.
Miguel: Yeah, and he's still putting out music. I'm going to say it's Snoop Dogg.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: All right. So I think that's a good place for us to wrap this all up. Is there anything you would like to add before we get out of here?
Christina: I think we might have to do a separate Snoop episode because we just wrapped up his career in like what, 10 minutes or something and that needs a little more time.
Miguel: Yeah. Yeah. The only reason I didn't want to ever do a Snoop episode is, like I said, he's constantly been—
Christina: Right. We're not really reminiscing if he's just in our face every day.
Miguel: Yeah. But at the same time, we are about giving flowers while people are still here. So I think you'll see a Snoop Dogg episode in the works in the near future.
Christina: Still reminisce on all the early works because he may be still here now, but he's been here. Yes. So there's a lot of stuff in the past we can reminisce about.
Miguel: Exactly. So you know what? Let's do the first half of his career.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Let's do it like that.
Christina: Sure.
Miguel: All right. So thank you again for listening to They Reminisce Over You. We try to do this every two weeks. So come back in two weeks and get a new episode right here, wherever you're listening. Also, we have a newsletter called Liner Notes. It's free. Free 99. So if you would like to read our monthly newsletter, you can sign up for that at troypodcast.com/newsletter.
Christina: I read it.
Miguel: I read it too.
Christina: Every month.
Miguel: I read it twice every month.
Christina: Miguel writes it and I read it like I'm just a regular subscriber.
Miguel: Yeah. So if you don't like it, I will give your money back. How about that?
Christina: I like it.
Miguel: So just go ahead and sign up. troypodcast.com/newsletter. We also have merch. We have a store called Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang. You can go to teethang.com at t-e-e-t-h-a-n-g dot com. Get yourself a t-shirt, hat, mugs, bags, all that good stuff. We got some new shirts that will be up soon.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Teddy's Jam shirt. We have some Aaliyah t-shirts, but we've reconfigured them a little bit, so those are new on the site as well. Go ahead and get that for your friends and family. Holidays are coming up. Go ahead and spend some money on your folks.
Christina: Or for yourself.
Miguel: Or for yourself.
Christina: Self-care.
Miguel: Why not both? Yourself and your folks. We also make playlists for our episodes. So if you go to troypodcast.com, go to the episode page for this episode, you'll find a list of songs that we've decided to put together for you to listen to. And that was a head nod of positivity from Christina. Confirming that we do that.
Christina: You can't see it because we don't do video podcasts.
Miguel: We don't.
Christina: I can't be bothered to make myself look presentable.
Miguel: And that's all we have for this week. We'll be talking to you again in a couple of weeks. So deuces, silly deuces.