Episode Summary
On this episode we’re talking about comebacks and reinventions with three legendary albums: Black Messiah by D’Angelo, Mama Said Knock You Out by LL Cool J and The Emancipation of Mimi by Mariah Carey. These albums proved that each of these artists could come back from a down period in their careers and deliver some of their best work. Yeah, we should have called this episode “Don’t Call It A Comeback” but we already have one (Episode 39, go check it out) with that title. Anyway, settle in and get into this.
Transcript
Christina: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You. I'm Christina.
Miguel: And I'm Miguel. On this episode, we're getting into the power of the comeback. People love a good comeback story, even if they're responsible for the people falling off by making fun of them and all that kind of shit. But we're going to take a look at three of our faves, three legendary acts and performers who had a little bit of a hiccup or two in their careers, but they were able to “shake it off.”
Christina: Uh huh.
Miguel: And reinvent themselves and then they proved why they're the stars who they are. We're talking about three albums, Mama Said Knock You Out by LL Cool J, Black Messiah by D'Angelo, and last but not least, The Emancipation of Mimi by Mariah Carey.
Christina: AKA The Elusive Chanteuese.
Miguel: She's got a few AKA’s and Mimi is one of them. So you ready to just get into this episode?
Christina: Let's do it.
Miguel: All right.
Christina: Before we get into these specific albums, why do you think people like comeback stories so much? Especially if, as you were saying, they might have been part of the downfall.
Miguel: It just feels good to see somebody face adversity and then beat it and succeed. There are some people who we, I can't say we, I would like to see fail and continue to fail. But in a lot of cases, you want to see people get over whatever it is they're going through, whether it's a bad album, a bad movie, a string of bad TV shows, whatever, you just want to see that person do well.
Christina: Yeah. All right, that's all.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: You want to get into Mama Said Knock You Out to start?
Miguel: Yeah. So LL was coming off of an album called Walking with a Panther. It wasn't well-received by the critics and the streets, so to speak, but it was very popular in terms of having hits off of it, a lot of video play, a lot of airplay. It was just the content wasn't what people were used to from LL.
Christina: Yeah. And remember, this was at a time where commercial success wasn't necessarily seen as a good thing.
Miguel: Yeah, and he was coming off the Bigger and Deffer album, and it had the hit, “I Need Love.” And it seems like in response to that blowing up, is what this album was kind of based off of, because this is where you see LL as the hip hop ladies man. So there's a lot of songs about, “I’m that type of guy,” wanting the girl with the “big ole butt” and all that stuff. So that was the content that he was putting out at the time. And most people were like, no, this ain't what we're here for.
Christina: And then there was the album cover.
Miguel: He's wearing his leather outfit with a briefcase with who knows what in it, and a panther.
Christina: Wearing a chain.
Miguel: And three sexy ladies. Yes, the panther was wearing a chain. Animals that wear jewelry always makes me laugh. And yeah, the image that he was putting out, it ended up being a thing later, but in 1989, this wasn't it. Like, Big Daddy Kane was allowed to do this because he came out that way. Whereas it seemed like LL was transitioning into that. And that's where the backlash came from.
Christina: Well, I was just reading some stuff about the backlash since for me, I was introduced to him with the Mama Said Knock You Out album. So I didn't know about all this stuff until after. But some of the criticisms I was reading about, and you could tell me since you were there, was that people thought that the content was just ignorant compared to groups like Public Enemy and Boogie Down Productions who were a little more conscious and stuff at the time.
Miguel: I can't say that it was ignorant because he was-
Christina: Or materialistic.
Miguel: Yeah, it was that. Because he was never looked at as some gold standard of intelligence. I ain't saying he's stupid or anything.
Christina: But he was like a kid too though.
Miguel: He was a kid and that wasn't his thing. He wasn't like, I'm trying to lead black people out of struggle and strife. He was a young kid who was rapping his ass off and he thought he was the best at it. And that's who he was. He was like, I'm the best. Y'all ain't shit. Ha ha, nanny, nanny, boo boo. But like I said, he started to transition into the hip hop ladies man. And that's what kind of turned people off.
Christina: So the first two albums, he wasn't really seen as much as of a quote unquote ladies man, even though his name was Ladies Love Cool James?
Miguel: He was—
Christina: But this was just like on ten.
Miguel: Yeah, like the first two albums each had one song where he like, “I Need Love” and all that. So that was expected. But to have eight out of twelve of those was a bit over the top.
Christina: And a bunch of them weren't very good.
Miguel: Yeah, that didn't help.
Christina: Because I think for me after like, going back and listening to the old albums without knowing that there was this backlash. Like, to me, this album just kind of sounded like it was trying too hard to capture the “I Need Love.”
Miguel: Yeah,
Christina: And it's just like, I felt like there was a lot of filler. Like, it just seemed more like they were just trying to recapture something.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: That's what it sounded like to me.
Miguel: Yeah. And there are some songs on here that are pretty good.
Christina: Yeah, you got “Going Back to Cali.”
Miguel: Actually, that wasn't originally on the album.
Christina: Oh.
Miguel: Because that's on the Less Than Zero soundtrack. That was added later.
Christina: Ohhhh.
Miguel: So you take that away. That's one less good song that people would gravitate towards. Like, “Going Back to Cali” came out before this album. But like, “Big Ole Butt” the beat was cool, so people liked that one. What else? “1-900-LL Cool J.” People liked that one. “Jingling Baby.” People liked that one. But you know, you're doing “One Shot At Love.”
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Eh, that didn't really work. The video for “I’m That Type of Guy,” eh, didn't really work. So it was that is what kind of made people say, yeah, we ain't fucking with LL right now.
Christina: Oh man, “Two Different Worlds.”
Miguel: Yeah, so it was a lot of that. That's why this album is looked at or was looked at as, yeah, you've fallen off. Which is funny to say, because he was like 20.
Christina: And this is his third album
Miguel: People were talking about, he's washed, he's done. LL is done and he's 20 years old.
Christina: And it's his third album in like, how long? Like, not too long.
Miguel: Like, five years.
Christina: Five years?
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So most people don't make it to even that much.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: To be washed already.
Miguel: Yeah, but the fact that he was the biggest rapper in the game at the time, that's arguable, but top three. Let's say he's top three in terms of popularity, skill, all that. And then he puts this out. It just wasn't matching who people thought he was.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: But like I said, there were some songs that I liked on it, but it just wasn't Bigger and Deffer.
Christina: Maybe if they had cut a few songs and maybe made it shorter.
Miguel: That would have helped. But at this time is when albums were getting longer. So that wasn't going to happen. Like there was, like I said, some songs that were cool, but not enough for me to say, I love this album. I'll listen to it every couple of years, just for nostalgia's sake. And then, yeah, that's unfortunate, though.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Because I'm an LL fan, so when fell off—
Christina: Were you upset?
Miguel: Um, I wouldn't say I wasn't upset. I was just disappointed.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: I didn't listen to it as much. But at the same time, like I mentioned, it gave us “Jingling Baby.” And on the single version was the Marley Marl remix to “Jingling Baby,” the one that pretty much all of us know from the video and the one from Mama Said Knock You Out.
Christina: That's the one I know.
Miguel: Yes. So that was your entry point to LL Cool J. That was like, okay, maybe he’s still got it. And also he had another song on the House Party 2 soundtrack called “To Da Break of Dawn.”
Christina: Ah, yes.
Miguel: Where he was basically taking shots at Hammer, Ice-T and Kool Moe Dee. And if you listen to the House Party 2 soundtrack, it's all about party and rah rah. And then this one dissing three people. This was out of place, but I guess LL's back.
Christina: And you could still dance to it?
Miguel: Yeah, you could.
So you went from the “Jingling Baby” remix, “To Da Break of Dawn” to the first single from Mama Said Knock You Out being “The Boomin’ System.” And it's like, all right, LL's back.
Christina: He's back.
Miguel: He is back. And we're all in.
Christina: A whole year later. His comeback came back a whole year later.
Miguel: His comeback at 22 years old, one year later.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And now he's back on top of the world again.
Christina: Before we get more into Mama Said Knock You Out, I found an article that said, at a Stop the Racism rally and concert, this was before Mama Said Knock You Out, but after Walking with a Panther, he was booed by the crowd.
Miguel: Sounds about right.
Christina: Which makes sense because there is a song on Mama Said Knock You Out that talks about this one year downtime that he had.
Miguel: Exactly. “Go to the mall, they throw my old tapes at me.” But anyway.
Christina: “You ain't all that.”
Miguel: Let's get into Mama Said Knock You Out.
Christina: All right. Let's do it.
[Music break]
Christina: Well, I can't remember exactly the first song I heard from him, but it was this album. So it might have been “Mama Said Knock You Out,” might have been “Jingling Baby,” might have been “Around the Way Girl,” but this was my introduction to him.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: I think I knew this wasn't like, his first album, but it was just the first thing I heard.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: Because this is 1990 or ’91?
Miguel: Yes, ’90.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Yeah, basically that “Jingling Baby” remix kind of washed the stink off of LL. The production on Walking with a Panther, if it was a little bit better, we probably would have been able to get over the content of what he was saying.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Because there's not really much difference between that and this album, but the production value is much higher. And that's due to him working with Marley Marl on the full thing. Because like I said, the first single, “The Boomin’ System,” it comes out and I'm like, yeah.
Christina: Of course, you would like it.
Miguel: This is the shit that I'm into.
Christina: I put in the notes, good for driving, even though I was obviously not doing any driving in 1990.
Miguel: I didn't have a car. I was in like, eighth grade, something like that. But I had headphones and I had some great speakers in my bedroom that I had accumulated all the speakers from the different systems we had in the house and brought it all into my room. So my room was booming. And this was perfect for me. But “Mama Said Knock You Out” put LL back on the map.
Christina: Right. But he said “don't call it a comeback.”
Miguel: He did. He did say “don't call it a comeback,” even though it was.
Christina: “I’ve been here for years.”
Miguel: Yes.
Miguel: He didn't lie. He had been telling the truth. It wasn't a comeback. It was just a little hiccup. But I'm here now and my grandmother said to knock you niggas out. So that's what I'm going to do with this album.
Christina: But he was still able to. It's not like he changed what he was trying to do in the last album. He still he had “Mama Said Knock You Out.” He had “The Boomin’ System,” but he still had “Around the Way Girl.”
Miguel: Yes. But the difference between “Around the Way Girl” and the stuff on Walking with a Panther is all of that was like, I'm trying to get in them drawers. Whereas “Around the Way Girl” was more appreciative of what he was looking for.
Christina: It wasn't just kind of being a creeper.
Miguel: Yeah.
He was able to see that, okay, maybe this wasn't the right approach. Let me tone it down a little bit and approach with respect.
Christina: How about if we do a song for the ladies and not for the creepers trying to get some ladies?
Miguel: Exactly. So that's the difference between this one and the previous album.
Christina: Well, it just sounds better, too.
Miguel: Yeah. Like I said, the production value on this album is way higher, even though “Milky Cereal” is a part of it. We'll let that one slide.
Christina: Oh, “6 Minutes of Pleasure.” I was watching the video the other day. That was something.
Miguel: The other thing with Walking with a Panther, that's where LL started to have these unhinged moments in videos.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: So he's like, the super secret spy with a vault full of women in “I’m That Type of Guy.”
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And what was the other one that was a weird video?
Christina: Well, in “6 Minutes of Pleasure,” it's just him and this girl in like, a like, a kid's fun house.
Miguel: Oh, no, I was talking from the previous album, Walking with a Panther, “Big Ole Butt.” That was just him and a whole bunch of ass.
Christina: Well.
Miguel So, the videos didn't help his case any.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And like I said, this is when he started to get into the unhinged territory, because like you said, with the “6 Minutes of Pleasure,” he's basically in a preschool.
Christina: Yeah. Playing like, just like, in a bounce, not a bouncy castle, but like, that kind of kid stuff.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Toys and stuff. It's him and this girl and he's like, drinking juice or something out of a pacifier. And it's just like, eww.
Miguel: Yeah. So this album for me was perfect in a sense that it put him back where he was supposed to be. But it also continued a trend, which happens at least to me, where his albums are up and down. Like, one album will be really good and the other one kind of takes a dip. And then the one after that goes back up and then takes a dip. And it seems like he did that throughout his career. And I don't know if it was because he was getting distracted with the acting or doing outside things. But it's been kind of up and down.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: He's never really had like, a completely shit album. At least in my opinion, they've all been listenable, but they don't hit the heights of the good ones or the great ones, I should say. But this one is one of his best.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: So what's your favorite song on this album?
Christina: I think it's, you know, a younger me would have tried to pick something so that it wouldn't be so obvious, but an older me is like, I like what I like. “Around the Way Girl.”
Miguel: Of course.
Christina: There are some close seconds. I like the “Jingling Baby” remix, “The Boomin’ System” and “Cheesy Rap Blues” because it's funny.
Miguel: Yes.
That's probably my favorite song. On the album because it's so condescending to himself. It's self-deprecating. Where he's like, yeah, I fell off. All my girls left me. My homies don't want to talk to me no more.
Christina: “They throw my old tapes at me.”
Miguel: I'm not making any money.
Christina: “Run the jewels.”
Miguel: I'm going to have to resort to robbery if this album right here doesn't work out.
Christina: Which is interesting because especially with him too, but in general, rap requires a lot of bravado.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So he's just like, ugh.
Miguel: I’m down bad right now.
Christina: Put them hands up. “Keep them up. Run the jewels.”
Miguel: I'm going to have to resort to robbery. What did he say? “It's windshield time. I’ll take quarters, pennies, dimes and nickels, and a kiddies tricycle.” So yeah, that's where he was after Walking with a Panther and before getting into the studio with Marley Marl. So that's my favorite, followed up by “The Boomin’ System.”
Christina: “Mama Said Knock You Out,” obviously as well. The title track is a good one too.
Miguel: Surprisingly, I really don't like that song as much.
Christina: I see what you mean. I like it.
Miguel: I like it for like nostalgia value, like when we saw him perform it live. I was all in, but it's never a song I'm going to put on and listen to intentionally.
Christina: Yeah, I like it. But I wrote a whole list of all the songs I like. And I'm like, oh, I didn't put “Mama Said Knock You Out” on it.
Miguel: Yeah, because like I said, the album is a lot better and has so many other things going on for it. “Murdergram” is another one that I like. What else? “Farmers Blvd.” is another one that I like. I'm good with this album.
Christina: Yeah, this, I mean, it was my introduction to him and it made me a fan, so.
Miguel: And it's a good comeback, even though he said, “don't call it a comeback.” We all know what it was, James.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: We know it was a comeback.
Christina: “I’ve been here for years” and I've only been down for one.
Miguel: Yeah. And you're all 22 years old.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But anyway.
Christina: I just think it's hilarious that he took that year off to get beefed up in between, too.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: He's ready to fight verbally and physically.
Miguel: He did. He put on some weight. He changed everything about himself.
Christina: Yeah, because I remember thinking like, just going back and like, looking at his old stuff and thinking that the period between that album and the older stuff was longer because he was just like, skinnier. Like, he looked more like a kid.
Miguel: Yeah, he definitely got bigger. You can hear that his voice had changed in between albums, too.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But that's what happens when you're 21, 22 years old.
Christina: He's still growing.
Miguel: Exactly. So I think this is a good spot for us to take a break.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: And we'll be back.
[Break]
Christina: Are you enjoying this podcast?
Miguel: Hell, yeah.
Christina: If you're enjoying it as much as he is, there's a couple of things you could do. You can feel free to drop some coins into our collection plate at ko-fi.com/troypodcast. And that's Kofi, ko-fi.com. Link is also in the show notes. We're self funded, so any support would be appreciated. And if you don't have any extra coins to spare, just leave us a five star rating or review. Like JLo's love, it won't cost you a thing.
Miguel: You're just sitting at home on the couch anyhow.
Christina: All right. Thanks.
Miguel: Back to the show.
[Break ends]
Miguel: Okay, we are back. And now we're going to talk about one of my favorite albums, Black Messiah, by D'Angelo.
Christina: Wait, one of your favorite albums or your favorite D'Angelo album?
Miguel: Correct. One of my favorite D'Angelo albums. It’s actually my favorite D'Angelo album.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: As much as I like the first two, which we're going to get into a little bit, this is my favorite one.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: And I'll explain later why. But after his first two albums, he was basically looked at as the savior of Black music.
Christina: The savior and also ushering this new neo-soul sound that the neo-soul singers hated being called.
Miguel: Everyone hates the term, but that's what we all call it.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And he was the leader of that movement, even though there was no actual coalition or anything. He was looked at as the nigga, basically. It's him, Erykah, and then everybody else kind of falls in line after that. But Brown Sugar was the first album, obviously.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: And it had a hip-hop influence without being hip-hop.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Because look at him. He looks and carries himself with the swagger of a rapper, but he's playing keys and guitar with a cigarette dangling from his lips.
Christina: Right. There's a bit of Prince. There's a bit of like, speakeasies. There's a bit of like, old soul. And then there's some, you know, Wu-Tang and hip-hop vibes as well. Where is he from?
Miguel: Virginia
Christina: Oh, Virginia. Yes, we were talking about talking about something in the water in Virginia.
Miguel: So he had all of that in him. Like I said, he was hip-hop without being hip-hop. So that made him appeal to—
Christina: Everybody.
Miguel: The Timb boot wearing, fatigue jacket, dude standing on the corner to play some R&B without feeling like a sucker. I don't listen to that soft shit, but D'Angelo allowed them to listen to it.
Christina: And then of course the ladies.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And everyone in between.
I think there were people whose hip-hop influence might have been a little more obvious in the music, like Mary J. We always talk about her being queen of hip-hop soul. His music aside from some of the remixes wasn't that obvious, but you just feel the swag, I guess. And I think maybe that's what made it feel new, hence, neo-soul.
Miguel: Right. And the first album, it was successful. It had pretty big hits on it, but he wasn't pop culture big. Like, he was out there. People knew who he was. He had crossed over to MTV and all that good stuff, but he wasn't a superstar.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: That happened on the second album, Voodoo. So even when the first couple of singles came out, it was still the same trajectory as Brown Sugar. But when that “Untitled” video came out, that took him from D'Angelo to D'ANGELO, all caps.
Christina: I'm pretty sure I mentioned this in one of our previous episodes where we talked about him, where I guess because, I get it, I mean, he was basically naked in that video, and that's a jump up from being cute with clothes on, I guess.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But to me, I had always looked at him as like, a guy that the girls liked. So to me, it just seems crazy that him taking off his shirt, like, he was cute before. I remember him from the “U Will Know” stuff.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: I remember that because in the video and in the live performance on some award show, I was like, who's this cutie on the piano? So then when Brown Sugar came out, I'm like, it's the cutie on the piano. And so to me, I don't get, like, you just missed all of that until he took off his shirt?
Miguel: Well, the thing to add to that is you knew who he was from “U Will Know.”
Christina: I guess.
Miguel: So you were watching the transition. Whereas there's people who have never heard of him before.
Christina: And now he's the cutie with his shirt off.
Miguel: And now he's oiled up on MTV.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: And he's singing that song.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: That's how he went from here to way up here.
Christina: Way up there.
Miguel: Because it was the people who didn't know him like, oh, who the fuck is this?
Christina: Right.
Miguel: And then the ones who did know him like you, like, yeah, he's always been this.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But we like it even more because now he's got his shirt off.
Christina: Now we see what's underneath. But like, this ain't any different. This is still D'Angelo.
Miguel: Right. So that's what took him to that next level was from the new people coming in and being like, all right, what's up with the naked dude?
Christina: Right.
Miguel: But in terms of the music, this album to me is better than the first one, not because it kind of transitioned away from the hip hop vibes, because there's still an element of hip hop on it.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: But it's a little more like, eclectic. So you have not just the soul influence from Brown Sugar, but now you're incorporating jazz and Spanish music and all sorts of different genres were on this album. So that made it a little more appealing for me, at least, because he was touching on these different types of genres that he hadn't done on the previous album.
Christina: I think kind of like what I was saying about “Mama Said Knock You Out,” for me, “Untitled” is not the best song on this album.
Miguel: It isn't.
Christina: It's the song that a lot of people love, a lot of people know, but for other reasons, it's a good song.
Miguel: It is.
Christina: But it ain't the best song, in my opinion, on this album.
Miguel: Well, I've told you many times before, I want my Prince music to come from Prince. So when I hear D'Angelo or Bilal or even Andre 3000 trying to do their version of Prince, it doesn't work for me. Like, the songs are good, but it ain't Prince. I need that to come from him. But everything else on this album, I'm all in on, because “Spanish Joint” is my favorite song on the album, and that sounds nothing like what was on Brown Sugar.
Christina: Not at all. I would say my favorite song is I really like “One Mo’Gin” and “Feel Like Making Love,” even though that's a cover, but I still like his version. Like, I would listen to— and “Send It On.” I would listen to those three over “Untitled” personally.
Miguel: Same.
Christina: But again, like I said, “Untitled” is not a bad song, and I don't mind the Prince-likeness of it. It doesn't bother me.
Miguel: It just seems like someone trying to do Prince rather than doing themselves. That's why it just never really appealed to me. But you throw on “Spanish Joint” and I'm all in.
Christina: Yeah. This one was definitely more jam session-like. Does that make sense? But I mean, it's still produced well, but it sounds more like just a bunch of musicians jamming to come to a final product.
Miguel: Yeah. Let's get in here and keep playing until something sticks.
Christina: Yeah. And like, playing real instruments and stuff.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Not that I mean, you know, I love the hip-hop soul, neo-soul stuff. So I can't say that I think this one's better than the other one, but I love the first album for what it is, and I love the second album for what it is. I can't really compare it. They're just two different. You could see him transitioning into more of live instrumentation itself, even though they were doing that on the first album too, but this one was definitely more mature. Is that the right word?
Miguel: Yeah, and to go along with what you're saying about how it just sounds like they're improvising. The first album has a lot more structure that we're used to, and on Voodoo, as they start to, like you say, improvise, things get a little more loose and don't make sense, but they make sense at the same time, because there's a lot of things on this album where you expect a chorus to come in, and then it comes in like two lines before or three lines after. The song structures just weren't what we were used to, but somehow they made it work. But with that, your man disappeared.
Christina: He did.
Miguel: For like, 15 years.
Christina: So when Erykah Badu said, “I’m an artist and I'm sensitive about my shit,” that should have been D’Angelo. Because this whole naked man thing just sent him into a spiral. He's just like, you know, people don't appreciate my art. He got ladies yelling at him to take his shirt off rather than listening to the music and other things. I'm sure there's other stuff going on with him. I'm sure there's some paralyzing perfectionism.
Miguel: Yeah, I saw an interview and I looked for it yesterday from when we did the first episode on him where he was talking about how he was performing somewhere and in one show somebody grabbed his crotch and they were yelling take your shirt off and then some woman threw money at him and on the microphone he yelled at the crowd and said I'm not a stripper. He finished the show but this is the kind of stuff that was happening to him.
Christina: And he takes his art very seriously.
Miguel: Yes, and he always talks about the difference between Michael and D'Angelo and he wants Michael to be more present and the people want D'Angelo. So I can see how that could lead to all of the issues that he ended up having.
Christina: Right. Yeah. So he was just like, I'm not taking my shirt off ever. Bye.
Miguel: He disappeared. He had some writer's block in between albums. Just the personal struggles he was dealing with. So there was a lot going on in his life personally.
Christina: Yeah, personally. And then his record company that he was signed to, the record company he was signed to, I think it like folded or some other company took it. I don't know. There was like some record company contract issues and it had to like go to another place, something or other I was reading. So there was just a lot going on. Like, at the time, it's just like, it's been years. Like, why is it so hard to put an album out?
Miguel: Especially when hearing from people who have been working with him talking about he's got an album coming out next year.
Christina: Yeah. But then when you kind of like, now you look and you see all the things that was going on at the time, you're just like, okay, there was a lot going on at the time. Like I said, personal, professional, things of the record company and yeah.
Miguel: So throughout the years, he would pop up here and there doing hooks and whatnot on people's songs. He's on “Be Here” with Raphael Saadiq. He's on a song with Dr. Dre and Snoop on Snoop's album. He's on other random songs. So he would poke his head out every couple of years and there will always be some leaks. Yeah, the "Really Love" leak[1] that we were listening to yesterday with Questlove doing his drops all over it.
Christina: “You didn't get it from me.”
Miguel: “Questlove exclusive.” Which led to them having like, an eight, nine year fallout from that being leaked. That was supposed to be on the James River album, which is what Black Messiah started as. But over the years, it eventually turned into this.
Christina: Yeah, I think because he would pop up here and there, we sort of felt like, okay, it's coming, it's coming. But when I was just reading about all the stuff that was going on with him during that time, I remember like, we saw those mug shots and then he had this car accident. I think for me, that was kind of when I felt like, yeah, this is never gonna happen. And I think that's probably when a lot of people would say he quote unquote fell off. And we just sort of thought, all right, we got those other albums and...
Miguel: That's all we're gonna get.
Christina: Yeah, like it's, this is not looking good for him, right? Because I think that was, probably around that time was when he got really quiet.
Miguel: Yeah, but eventually around 2010, he starts poking his head out for real this time. Because I remember I was on Twitter one night and someone posted a video of him performing like, in Germany or Sweden, somewhere in Europe. And it's like, oh, he's actually getting on stage now. And then he announced that he was actually doing a tour, but he only toured in Europe. So it started to be like, okay, maybe this is actually going to happen because he's performing like covers and new songs that nobody's heard before. And then it was announced that he was performing at Made in America.
Christina: And we had to be there.
Miguel: Had to be there. Like, if he's going to be performing in the US, we got to be there.
Christina: We got to be there.
Miguel: And we went. And the D'Angelo that we saw performing there, was not the D'Angelo that had left us. This D'Angelo was, I'm a rock star. I'm coming out with the leather outfit on, leather trench coat, the hat, feathers, all this shit. He's very Sly Stone now versus the hip hop dude from the “Brown Sugar” video. But the performance was great.
Christina: Yes. And he did sing some of the, you know, the oldies for us and as well as some of the new stuff.
Miguel: Yeah. He did two songs that ended up on Black Messiah. But this was two years before that we saw him before the album came out?
Christina: Something like that. Yeah. I think it was like 2012.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So we got to see the early versions of “Sugah Daddy” and I think “The Charade” is what he did.
Christina: I was going to, I meant to go look in my old files to see if I recorded it, but I forgot.
Miguel: Yeah, I don't have it. I had some terrible photos from whatever phone I was using at the time. But there is a link[2] to the concert, like the full Made in America. And we could post that again, because we linked to it the last time we talked about D'Angelo. But his set was pretty good. And that kind of set the stage for Black Messiah. Let's talk about that.
[Music break]
Christina: All right, the long-awaited Black Messiah album that came, what, 14 years after Voodoo?
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Do we call this a comeback, or do we call it a break?
Miguel: It's a comeback, because we just talked about how low he was personally.
Christina: That’s true.
Miguel: So he had to come back from the personal issues.
Christina: I actually said people had written him off.
Miguel: Yeah, so this is definitely a comeback. It's not a musical comeback, but it's still a comeback.
Christina: Personal comeback that came with an album?
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: And a documentary.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: So it was kind of like, a surprise drop too, because I actually don't remember it being like this, but I was reading that he had initially planned to release it in 2015. But because of all the stuff that was going on in Ferguson and with Eric Garner, he decided to release it a little earlier.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I guess they just put it up on streaming services, because the article I was reading was saying how it was kind of like Beyoncé's secret drop.
Miguel: I don't remember.
Christina: I don't remember.
Miguel: I just remember that when I found out, it was like, okay, let me go write a download this real quick.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: And what were your thoughts on the album?
Christina: I think it was kind of like the Made in America performance, where I knew I wasn't going to get some kind of Brown Sugar, especially with Voodoo already sort of going away from that. So I think I had to get used to the, as you were saying, the more rock-ish Jimi Hendrix sound.
But the fact that "Really Love" that I had been waiting for, for so many years since I had heard the Questlove leak, I was very happy that that made it onto the album. So overall, like, I enjoyed it, but I think there was a part of me that was still mourning in terms of like, well, we never getting that D'Angelo back though.
But I do think it is a great album, and just re-listening to it again for this episode, I was like, I need to listen to this more. And I think it also helps too, that some time has also passed for me. So I think in the 10 years that this has come out, the comeback album is now 10 years old already. I think my musical interests have grown a little bit, too, that I think I'm a little more open to listen to this than I was in 2014.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: That makes any sense?
Miguel: It does.
Christina: So I definitely still enjoy it. I also think because there is a bit of a political element to this album, I started prepping for this episode the day after the US election. And so I think that made it hit a little different.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Just, you know, just general feelings of in “The Charade,” he's like, “all we wanted was a chance to talk. Instead, we got outlined in chalk.”
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Even though there was things he was wanting to protest and talk about in 2014, specifically, it still kind of hit different now.
Miguel: Yeah, I like this one. And I told you earlier that it's my favorite D'Angelo album. Like, when Brown Sugar came out, it was perfect for that time.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Because it was something that we hadn't really heard before in terms of an R&B singer having this hip hop element, but he's using live instrumentation along with it. And he plays all these different instruments and he doesn't rap. So that was a bit different. It was more traditional in terms of song structure. And he kind of went left on Voodoo and started to expand a little more, get more improvisational. That all comes to a head on this album.
Christina: Definitely.
Miguel: Specifically, “A 1000 Deaths.” That song makes zero sense to me musically, but I love it. Because it has this weird intro that's like a minute and a half long of just noise basically. But once he starts to sing and still three albums in, I don't know what this nigga be saying most of the time.
Christina: You know the mumbling is definitely worse on this album.
Miguel: Yeah. And not only is it worse, it's mixed down under the music so you really can't hear it. And you got to read the lyrics to know what he's saying.
Christina: Well, I was watching this YouTuber who's also a musician do a breakdown[3] of "Really Love." I forgot his name and I said to you we can link to it as well. And he said something about that. He's like, it doesn't matter what he's saying. You just got to feel it.
Miguel: Right.
Miguel: Like, you just feel like, okay, this is good. I like this because like I said, “A 1000 Deaths” makes zero sense musically and it should not be a good song. But it is. The drumming is all over the place. He starts singing at random spots and you're like, okay.
Christina: Yeah, that jam session feel is like, way up there on this album.
Miguel: Yeah. And you get to where you think the verse is going to end and he's still singing. And then randomly the verse or the chorus comes in out of nowhere. And usually you think that the chorus is going to be this long and it's longer. So it doesn't make any sense. And there's a lot of that on this album. But it works somehow. I don't know why, but it does.
Christina: Because he and everyone else in the room are real musicians.
Miguel: They are.
Christina: That's how it works.
Miguel: They can make chaos sound beautiful.
Christina: Us laymans don't understand. We just listen to it.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: And we decide, do I like this? Yes or no.
Miguel: And the reason that I love this album so much is I'm a Parliament lover. I love Parliament. I love all things P-Funk.
Christina: This is all you.
Miguel: But this album is more Funkadelic than it is Parliament. Because as I've explained to you before, the Funkadelic is more of their psychedelic rock side and the Parliament is the funk side. This is way closer to funkadelic and like “Maggot Brain” and all those different songs than “Knee Deep.” Even though “Knee Deep” is a Funkadelic song.
Christina: This is why you like this album the best. Because see, I like songs that sample P-Funk. But I don't listen to P-Funk itself, Funkadelic or any of that stuff. I only listen to it because you listen to it. And then I hear it. So that's why this isn't my favorite album because it's just generally not my style. Voodoo is kind of like, the in between this style and Brown Sugar. So Voodoo would be what appeals to me the best in terms of incorporating some of these types of sounds. But again, like I said, I need to listen to this album more often. Yeah.
Miguel: I've listened to it consistently since it's come out.
Christina: Yeah. Not me. I still throw on Brown Sugar. Like, if I'm like, oh, I feel like listening to D'Angelo today, usually Brown Sugar will be the first option.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But I definitely need to listen to this more often.
Miguel: Yeah. I think it's because there are elements of Brown Sugar and Voodoo on this album, like "Sugah Daddy" or "Really Love" or "Betray My Heart." Those songs sound like they could have been on the first two albums.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And then you get the aggressiveness of the guitars and the drums on this album. So it works for me.
Christina: Yeah. Like I like D'Angelo better when he's tickling those ivory keys over the guitars.
Miguel: You get some of that on this album.
Christina: I do. I do. That's why I still like this album. I just prefer that. Yes.
Miguel: So I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this question. But what are your favorite songs on this album?
Christina: "Really Love."
Miguel: Yeah. I knew that would be the answer.
Christina: I've been waiting for it for like-
Miguel: Since 2007?
Christina: Yeah. So it was kind of predetermined, I think. “You didn't hear from me.”
Miguel: Well, for me, it's going to be "Betray My Heart." That one is my favorite. I don't know why. I just-
Christina: I would say that one's actually my second favorite. Or maybe “Sugah Daddy.”
Miguel: “Sugah Daddy” is good, but I'm going to go with "Betray My Heart."
Christina: “I will never betray my heart.” Might put you through some things according to his ex-girlfriend, but “I will never betray my heart.”
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: It might be a little hard to be around.
Miguel: On that note, I think we should take another break.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: We'll be back.
[Break]
Miguel: Hi kids. Do you like fun?
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And bookmarking a bunch of articles you'll probably never read? We're starting a monthly newsletter called Liner Notes. We'll be sharing what we're watching, what we're listening to, throwback YouTube videos, updates on our upcoming projects, random shit you may have missed on the Internet, you know, stuff like that. The link is in the show notes or you can go to troypodcast.com/newsletter. Do it. It's good for you.
Christina: It'll make your teeth whiter.
Miguel: And back to the show.
[Break ends]
Miguel: All right. We are back. And now we're going to discuss Miss Mariah Carey and The Emancipation of Mimi.
Christina: Yes. The comeback album that technically wasn't intended to be the comeback album.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So The Emancipation of Mimi was released in 2005. So she had been out for a long time already. So unlike our other two subjects, it wasn't a couple of years. And then this supposed to drop off. She was dominating the 90s like she had a crazy run in the 90s. And then, you know, stuff happened.
Miguel: A few things happened. She got a public divorce. She started to break down a little bit mentally in public. She did a movie that didn't do very well. So it was a lot happening in and around her.
Christina: Yeah, in a, you know, short amount of time, a couple of years. Yeah, the divorce was in ’98. Glitter came out 2001. So a few years where things didn't quite work out, especially like I was saying, since she dominated the 90s, there was really no break for us to to not expect that anything that she puts out wouldn't be good, I guess. So it's just like, so when Glitter came out, it was like, oh, and the movie wasn't very good.
Miguel: I bought it for like $4 in Alaska.
Christina: I never I've never watched the movie.
Miguel: We should watch it tonight. It's it's a piece of work.
Christina: I just remember people just being like, this is terrible, even though now it has like, a cult following. But at the time, it was just like, this is bad.
Miguel: Yeah, I'm not going to give any like, bad talk about the soundtrack.
Christina: Yeha.
Miguel: Because it's meant to be—
Christina: Campy?
Miguel: Not only campy, but it was like, from a specific time period. So the songs that are on it fit the movie and not necessarily a Mariah Carey album.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So I'm not going to say that the album itself was bad. It just didn't fit like, the rest of her career. And that's because it's a soundtrack.
Christina: Right. Because when I re-listened to the album, I was like, this isn't so bad.
Miguel: Yeah, it's cool.
Christina: This isn't how I remember it being like, in the sense that I just remember everything about Glitter was supposed to be bad.
Miguel: Well, just coming off of everything else she had done. This soundtrack in comparison to the rest of her discography is bad. But as an album itself, it's like, all right, it's cool. Yeah, it makes sense for the soundtrack.
Christina: Yeah. And then Charmbracelet was supposed to be the comeback. That was released like a year after that. But that also didn't land as expected.
Miguel: It didn’t.
Christina: And I would imagine trying to create a comeback album after coming, you know, going through all the other stuff might be difficult. It sounded like to me when I was listening to the album, it sounded like they were like, let's just follow the tried and true Mariah Carey formula. We're going to just follow this recipe, one cup of hip hop, one cup of R&B, one cup of Mariah singing with her fingers. Like, it was her formula, but it sounded too formulaic. If that makes sense, the songs just didn't really work.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Even though she's perfected her pop R&B style with hip hop artists and stuff, you can't just throw her on a song with a rapper and it just works.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Like, “Irresistible” uses the “You Know How We Do It” beat, you got Westside Connection on there. But when I hear that, I'm like, oh, I would definitely like this song. Then I listen to it, I'm like, I don't. Like, it just didn't sound like it was well thought out. Like I said, it just sounded like they were just like, this is what people like, let's do it.
Miguel: Yeah, that song is a perfect example, like you said, of why it didn't work. Because yeah, she's over Ice Cube beat or whatnot. But having Westside Connection on it didn't work because Westside Connection didn't do this type of music.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: Like having Cam’ron on the “Oh Boy” song makes sense.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Because Cam’ron would be on these type of songs. He had done R&B records before.
Christina: That's the only song that I like on this album.
Miguel: Whereas like, Westside Connection didn't do R&B records.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Like, they were anti-R&B. So to do a song with them really didn't make much sense to me. And it's stuff like that is why I really didn't like this album.
Christina: So I actually had put in my notes, “Irresistible” vs “Boy (I Need You)” in terms of like, when it does work and when it doesn't. Because in the song with Dipset, it sounds like they thought about how to mix the two styles together. Because in the original song, you know how they incorporate the little “boy” into their lyrics. And then she did that with her lyrics as well. And so it just like, it just sounds more well thought out. Yeah. So I can't say much about Charmbracelet. And it definitely did not work as a comeback album.
Miguel: Yeah. From what I'm looking at, and I listened to it again yesterday, nothing really stands out.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: That's the biggest thing. And it didn't help that two of the three singles were like, these really, really pop songs, like “Through the Rain” and “Bringing on the Heartbreak,” when we had kind of been conditioned to hip hop, Mariah.
Christina: Although I think “Through the Rain” ended up becoming like a pretty popular song.
Miguel: It is. But again, that's not what we had gotten conditioned to. We were like, finally we get Black Mariah.
Christina: Yeah. And she's broken free.
Miguel: Right. And so she's leaning back on to that whole pop thing. And that's where it kind of lost me. Even though at the time I wasn't listening to a lot of Mariah Carey, I always knew the singles.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And these singles just didn't do anything for me.
Christina: I'm assuming I had listened to the album at the time. But when I was re-listening to now, I was like, I don't know any of these songs except for the “Boy (I Need You.)”
Miguel: So you take all of that into consideration, like, the Glitter failure, the album coming out on 9/11.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: That didn't help.
Christina: That probably didn't help.
Miguel: The soundtrack for Glitter. She's having this public meltdown on MTV and other networks. She's having a divorce. She gets through that, releases this album and still isn't able to recapture that magic? It's safe to say after 13, 14 years, maybe her career was done.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And that wouldn't be a bad thing because of all the stuff she had done previous to Charmbracelet. But she took a couple of years off, got back in the studio with Jermaine Dupri, brought in The Neptunes and came up with The Emancipation of Mimi.
Christina: The Emancipation of Mimi, which brought us “them chickens is ash and I’m lotion.”
Miguel: Classic Mariah.
Christina: Classic Mariah in “It's Like That.” So this came out in 2005, which was great for me because this is like, outside time in the club. So these songs, “It's Like That,” “Shake It Off,” this perfect club song with the girls. So this was the comeback.
Miguel: Yeah. These songs felt more authentic than Charmbracelet.
Christina: So this is the Mariah Carey formula, but it sounded like they actually took the time to craft it rather than just mash it up together. Like, oh, let's just throw some rappers and a hip hop beat.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: This made sense.
Miguel: We could put Snoop or Nelly on these songs and it works. I don't see Dub C being on a Mariah Carey song. That just makes zero sense. But putting these guys on it, it's perfect.
Christina: Yeah, like “Say Somethin’” was cute as well. And like I said, “It’s Like That.” Jermaine Dupri says, “time to get on the dance floor.”
Miguel: Right.
Christina: And we did.
Miguel: Exactly. You got Fatman Scoop on it. So that felt a little more authentic to the Mariah experience that we had gotten to know post-Butterfly.
Christina: And then you got this “Shake It Off,” which is kind of like, you know, post relationship, post whatever. But it's like, still lighthearted.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: That you could shake it off in the club, but you could still kind of like, yeah, “shake it off.” you know, leave that job, leave that man. It’s—it was, it made sense that the album was called The Emancipation of Mimi.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Even though it sounds kind of funny. But it's like, it really felt like she was like, you know, I'm coming out. This is it. This is met. Like, she's, quote unquote, shaking it off.
Miguel: And some people might not take this too well, and they may take offense to it bigger Mariah Carey fans than I am because I am admittedly not a huge Mariah Carey fan.
Christina: You're not a lamb?
Miguel: I'm not part of the lambily. But I will say that this is the album that saved her career. Because just the way that it was trending after Glitter and Charmbracelet, if this album didn't hit, Mariah probably just would have faded away. She still would have been putting music out, but it wouldn't have gotten the eyes on it had this album not done what it did. And this is not like, a big selling album in comparison to her other discography.
Christina: But it is a big selling album.
Miguel: It still is, but it's not like, her top five.
Christina: Yeah, but that's because her top five is crazy.
Miguel: Astronomical.
But this has a connection with the streets in a way that the previous two albums didn't. And like you said, because it came out in 2005 and her first album was in ’89 or ’90. Now, she's tapping into a whole new audience who didn't know the previous Mariah Carey. Like you said, they're outside in the clubs. So this Mariah Carey, they don't know much about the previous version. So now she's bringing in a whole new set of fans.
Christina: Right. Well, not only like, new fans and new audience, but it's just like, a new sound like, now, because now the early 2000s is different from the late ‘90s.
Miguel: It is.
Christina: So now this is like, the third wave of Mariah. But for fans that have been there throughout this whole time, I think it was easy for me to like, forgive her, quote unquote, for Charmbracelet, because it's like, I've been listening to her for 10 years. One off album is not going to be like, down with Mariah. She's washed. I'm never listening to her again. Like, I'm going to listen to her.
Like you were saying, maybe it was three albums that kind of like, maybe then I would have not been as excited, but it's like one album or technically two if you count Glitter. But it just it wasn't like, Mariah Carey's washed. But she still gave us ballads and stuff, but it wasn't sort of the cheesy-ish early ‘90s pop style.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: She gave us “We Belong Together,” which is, you know, one of her biggest singles ever. So she'll give you something to to dance to. But I mean, I remember like, you could play “We Belong Together” in the club.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And there's also the the remix version as well. And so even though it's kind of more like, a ballad, it's also a little uptempo. So like, you could play that in club. I'm sure they played in club. I feel like I remember singing at the top of my lungs.
Miguel: That I can't confirm because I don't remember, but I'm not going to say it didn't happen.
Christina: And like I said, there is a faster remix of it too as well. But it was so funny, I didn't even make this connection until you said it. I was always joking about how I never understood the video[4] in “We Belong Together” because I'm like, how is she supposed to marry Eric Roberts? And then she runs off with the guy from Prison Break. What’s his name?
Miguel: Wentworth Miller.
Christina: Yeah, Wentworth Miller. I'm like, what kind of pairing is that? And you're like, duh, Tommy Mottola and Derek Jeter. I'm like, oh, now it makes sense.
Miguel: That's what it was. Like, she just wasn't having ol’ Eric Roberts in the video because he had a couple of hits in the 80s. No, he was supposed to represent the older person that she didn't want to be with. And this is the guy she wants to be with.
Christina: The older white man versus that biracial angel.
Miguel: Yes, “that beautiful biracial angel,” Derek Jeter.
Christina: Because I was like, that confused me for the longest time. I'm like, Eric Roberts and then Wentworth Miller. I'm like, those are two two interesting choices, right? And that's her life.
Miguel: It is. There's no faking in her game.
Christina: Yeah. So we got “We Belong Together” and then “Stay The Night” is one of my favorite songs off of the album. It's an album cut. When I was reading about it, it was initially supposed to be one of the singles. But then when she got into the studio with Jermaine Dupri and they came up with “It's Like That” and “Shake It Off,” it kind of got pushed down.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But I think that one's for the lambs then, because even though it's an album cut, it's a fan favorite, but that's one of my favorite songs off of the album. For me, it combines what we're saying, how she could do the ballads, but still make it appealing to maybe people who don't listen to too pop-ish stuff.
Miguel: Yeah. For me, my favorite song is “It's Like That.”
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Because like you said, this was prime outside time. This is something you're going to hear in the clubs, and then you add Fatman Scoop to it.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: If he's on a record, it's going to be a hit. This is something that needs to be played at a club, so—
Christina: You were reporting to the dance floor?
Miguel: Yeah. You had all the elements there. That was a classic two-step song. You don't have to get too wild because we weren't doing our choreographed dances at this point anymore.
Christina: Well, and then this is a song you can play a little earlier in the evening to get people started.
Miguel: Exactly. It's just when it's starting to ramp up, when Fatman Scoop comes in, that's when the party is getting set off now.
Christina: Yeah. Then they had an extended platinum version which gave us another single, “Don't Forget About Us.”
Miguel: I didn't realize that wasn't on the original album.
Christina: I didn't either until I read about it. So I guess you had to buy the CD twice.
Miguel: Which people were doing in those days. That’s why she was selling 20, 30 million sold on each album.
Christina: Yeah. So overall, even though, like I said, we've mentioned it several times, there was a certain recipe that she had, but this one felt more authentic than just like, we're just trying to make hits.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So I think that must have resonated with everybody because the album did very well.
Miguel: It did. And like I said, in my opinion, the lambs can get upset with me if they want, because I know how these stans can be. But I'm saying that this is the album that saved and resurrected her career. Just because on the trajectory that it was on, this brought it back.
Christina: I could be wrong, but I feel like there are definitely some lambs that don't even really pay attention to the previous stuff.
Miguel: It's true.
Christina: There is a definite subsection of her audience that, it's this on.
Miguel: Yeah. This was their entry point.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And they don't even acknowledge the stuff that happened before.
Christina: You're saying you think this album saved her career, but there are some people who are like, there was a career before this? That says a lot about her longevity in the industry, that she can have like, three generations of fans basically. Because most of the newer stuff she's done, I don't really know that stuff, but there are fans that just love it. Yeah. And I'm like, what song is that?
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: I can't remember which song it was, but one of these singles in the newer albums, I think when I was looking at on Billboard or something, I had to chart it really high for a long time. I'm like, I don't even know what song that is.
Miguel: Yeah. This was 15, 16 years into her career, and most people don't even get that type of a career. And here we are 20 years past that now, and she's still going.
Christina: Yeah. When I was on Tidal, I saw that she had just released a single sometime this year, and I was like, huh? I didn't even see this. So even though this album, I wouldn't call it a no skip because there are songs that I'm skipping, but it doesn't even matter because the hits are hitting.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And so it doesn't matter.
Miguel: The big songs are doing what they need to do.
Christina: Yeah. So this is definitely a comeback. And I think after this album, she hasn't really had a flop since I would say. Like, maybe some albums did better than others, but I don't think there was really a point when people were like, oh, she's falling off again.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: She's just here now. And now that she's like, the queen of Christmas to like.
Miguel: Yeah, she's never going away.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: She doesn't have to do music ever again.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: She just needs to put those memes up on October 31st of her transitioning from Halloween to Christmas. And every year she's going to thaw herself out until January and go back in the ice.
Christina: Yep.
Miguel: She could do only that for the rest of her life and be fine.
Christina: She's good.
Miguel: Yeah. All right. So I think we successfully talked about three amazing comeback albums and comeback moments in the careers of three different superstars.
Christina: And some of our favorite artists. I just realized something.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: We've seen D'Angelo and LL, but we haven't seen Mariah.
Miguel: We have not.
Christina: In concert.
Miguel: We haven't.
Christina: We had a chance. But again, like I said, I am not a fan of Christmas music.
Miguel: Yeah, I'm not trying to see Christmas Mariah.
Christina: Although it turns out from what I saw in some videos, she ended up singing other stuff. Yeah. Oh, well, maybe next year.
Miguel: Like, if she were to say to me that she's going on tour and she's doing from the first album—
Christina: Past, present and future like Usher.
Miguel: Yeah. She's doing one of those. I could get on board with it. But if she just come to town to sing some Christmas songs and then sprinkle in the hits.
Christina: Yeah. Yeah, I wasn't too convinced—
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: On that.
Miguel: So she needs to give us a real tour and then I'll think about it.
Christina: Right. All right.
Miguel: Yeah, that's all I got.
Christina: Mariah, go on tour.
Miguel: Yes, a real tour, not a Christmas—she ain't got to come outside other than this Christmas shit.
Christina: We'll see. We'll hold out some hope that there might be like, an actual tour. We'll see. We'll see.
Miguel: Or maybe she'll get another residency in Vegas.
Christina: That probably sounds more likely. I feel like she would probably rather stay in one place rather than flying around—
Miguel: Right.
Christina: The country or the world.
Miguel: Yeah.
All right. So is there anything else you want to say about these three before we get out of here?
Christina: I don't know. Listen to them. If you haven't listened to them in a while, same thing I always say pretty much.
Miguel: Go check out The Emancipation of Mimi, Black Messiah, and Mama Said Knock You Out.
Christina: Well, since all of these comeback albums are already old.
Miguel: Yeah, they're 10 plus years old.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Go check those out anyway.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: It's good music. Good times.
Christina: It is.
Miguel: All right, thank you again for listening to They Reminisce Over You. We try to do this every two weeks. So make sure to come back and join us two weeks from today or whatever you're listening to this. We also have a newsletter that if you want to sign up for that Liner Notes, it's a free monthly newsletter. I guarantee that you will like it. If you don't like it, I will give your money back. So sign up at—
Christina: I'll give you your free.99 back.
Miguel: You ain't supposed to tell them that part though. Go to troypodcast.com/newsletter. It'll pop up in your inbox somewhere between the first and the fourth of every month. There's some goodies in there. It's fun stuff. Also, we have a store called Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang. If you would like to buy some merch, not only do we have podcast merch, we have pop culture merch. So t-shirts, hats, hoodies, all that good stuff. Go ahead and buy yourself something nice. Buy your momma something nice for Christmas.
Christina: A little Teddy's Jam.[5]
Miguel: Yeah, get that Teddy's Jam t-shirt. We got the new Aaliyah t-shirt that's been updated. So go check those out at teethang.com, T-E-E-T-H-A-N-G.com
Christina: Hopefully, Apple's automatic transcript won't say teafang. It's TEETHANG.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: I don't know why it can't get that.
Miguel: Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang.
Christina: If you want accurate transcripts, go to our website instead.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: troypodcast.com.
Miguel: We will also be posting a playlist from this episode featuring LL Cool J, Mariah Carey, and D'Angelo, and a couple other acts who have made big comebacks like Tina Turner, and New Edition, and Dr. Dre, and A Tribe Called Quest. A whole bunch of comebacks are going to be on this playlist, so check that out as well. That's all I got. Christina's got nothing else to add, so we'll be talking to you nerds in about two weeks. Bye.
Christina: Bye.