Episode Summary
We are having a conversation about the golden era of Neo Soul on this episode. We get into some of our favorite albums and artists, discuss some lesser known acts, as well as talking about the non-musical influences on fashion, movies and television. We close the episode by putting together a hypothetical tour with 4 different acts from the era, and try to put together our Mount Rushmore of Neo Soul.
Transcript
Miguel: Before we get started, we wanted to acknowledge one of the pillars of the Neo Soul movement, Angie Stone, who passed away after we recorded this episode. Angie was not only a trailblazer in R&B, but in hip hop as well, as a member of The Sequence, who had the first song released by a female rap group ever. If you're listening to this podcast, then I'm sure you're aware of the hits. No More Rain (In This Cloud), Brotha, Wish I Didn't Miss You, all of that. We don't need to get into it. You know it. Our friends over at Queue Points have posted a tribute to Angie that was really well done and we linked to that in the show notes. Condolences to her family and well wishes to those in her band that were injured.
[theme music]
Miguel: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You, a podcast that takes a nostalgic look back at the best in music, movies, and TV from 80s, 90s, and early 2000s. I'm Miguel.
Christina: And I'm Christina. And this week, we're discussing the Neo Soul era, defined by some of your favorites, like D'Angelo and Erykah Badu. It was a fresh take on R&B music and one of my personal favorite genres.
Miguel: Me too, so are you ready to just get into it?
Christina: Let's do it.
So, Neo Soul was a movement that was opposite of what mainstream R&B had evolved into in the mid to late 90s. So think the digital hip hop influenced production of like, Aaliyah/Missy/Timbaland or Brandy and Rodney Jerkins. So, Neo Soul was analog and focused on live instrumentation. It often had a more raw and organic feel as well.
Miguel: It had some elements of hip hop and jazz, but for the most part, it was taking what had become digital back to its analog roots.
Christina: Yes. So this phrase, Neo Soul, was a term created by music exec, Kedar Massenburg. And he used it to market this style of music. He was managing D'Angelo at the time. And one of the first artists that he signed was, you know, a little known person, Erykah Badu.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: You may have heard of her.
Miguel: I've heard a few things about her.
Christina: So, it's interesting that this term has become something that the artists themselves don't really like. But it was created by an insider. Not an outsider who's, you know, making up some term without understanding the culture. But I guess maybe that's the difference between, like, a marketing and music exec versus the artists themselves.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Because he used it to kind of categorize this new group of R&B artists that had a different sound. But the artists themselves were like, no, we don't want to be called this.
Miguel: Yeah, because it wasn't organic. It was, like you said, it was a marketing term. I imagine if the artists had come up with this themselves, they would have had a better reaction to it. But you know how it is. I don't want to listen to the suits.
Christina: Right. Even if the suits is part of the culture as well. He's still a suit.
Miguel: Exactly. But listening to Neo Soul at this time was, it was kind of like listening to the mainstream versus underground and hip hop.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And Neo Soul was the conscious rap side, the underground, the backpack side.
Christina: The backpackers.
Miguel: Versus what was going on at Bad Boy and things like that. So, the shiny suit era.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: The Neo Soul era was the opposite of that.
Christina: Yeah. So, instead of shiny suits and popping champagne, you got head wraps and incense.
Miguel: Yes. There was a lot of natural hair, a lot of tank tops, a lot of sleeveless tees.
Christina: And knit caps.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Knit pants, knit in general.
Miguel: Yes. It was very earthy.
Christina: Yes. It was very earthy. That's the way to describe it.
Miguel: So, when you hear the term Neo Soul, what's the first thing that comes to mind?
Christina: Well, aside from basically what you said about it being very earthy, even though the artists themselves didn't like the label because they felt it was too restrictive, in my opinion, there was still a wide variety of different styles.
Miguel: Yeah, there was.
Christina: Because as much as we just said earthy and this and that, you still had D'Angelo out here looking like a rapper. Yeah. So, you still had that. I think for me, the common thread is it was very soulful.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: You had one spectrum that kind of leaned with hip hop vibes, hip hop styles, then you had sort of the Afro-centricity, very natural, and then you had the ‘70s styles like Maxwell and everything kind of in between. So, I don't know. I think the first thing that comes to mind for me is always like D'Angelo, Maxwell, Erykah. I think that's sort of like the big ones.
Miguel: The Holy Trinity.
Christina: Yeah. And they all kind of came out like one year after each other basically. So, Brown Sugar was ’95, Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite was ’96, Erykah’s Baduizm was ’97. So, it was just like an onslaught of like these big records.
Miguel: Yeah. Like you said, there was a wide range of artists that kind of fit under the Neo Soul umbrella. And there is the misconception that it's all about head wraps and poetry slams like India.Arie. She would be like the first thing I think of when you think Neo Soul. But at the same time, there was a lot of gangster shit going on if you really paid attention to it. And we'll get into that later. But yeah, it was a wide range of things going on.
Christina: Or sometimes it was combined.
Miguel: It was.
Christina: Jill Scott, who was all like, you know, nice jazzy vibes. But her first song was running up on this girl.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Going to her house and threatening her.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: You know, it wasn't all incense and candles.
Miguel: It wasn't.
Christina: I mean, it sounded like it sometimes.
Miguel: So do you remember your introduction to it?
Christina: I actually don't. I think probably now when we look back, we see this whole genre and there's a nice little category. But I think at the time, it was just new artists coming out. So it wasn't like the first time I heard Brown Sugar, I was like, oh, Neo Soul.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: It was just Brown Sugar.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Probably I would say my first introduction to what would become Neo Soul is probably D'Angelo with Brown Sugar. But I can't say it was like a specific moment where I was like, a new era is born.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: What about you? What was your introduction to it?
Miguel: Same thing. It was just like a gradual progression of seeing more and more of these type of songs on MTV and BET and on The Box. So it wasn't just one singular moment where it's like, that's it.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: It was like a slow transition.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Like you said, it was slowly working its way into the mainstream. And that's probably the same place I saw. And I'm sure it was like an episode of Video Soul or Planet Groove and all those BET shows back in the day.
Christina: Yeah. So why do you think that this analog sound resonated so much at this late ‘90s to early 2000s? Do you think it was kind of like we just need something a little different from the bling bling?
Miguel: I think it had to do more with the technology because we mentioned this in a few other episodes where we were talking about the growth of hip hop and how fast things were changing over the years. We went from needing like a full band to make an album to a DJ in the park, like looping records and then people rapping over them. And you're going from that to using samplers and keyboards and using drum machines to program the music. And because it was growing so fast on the hip hop side, that kind of influenced R&B music as well. We see the transition away from like a full band sound towards New Jack Swing, for example. And you take the New Jack Swing era and jump ahead to what Timbaland and Rodney Jerkins and The Neptunes were doing.
And I think that the music had gotten so far away from what was happening in the seventies that you just open the door for somebody saying, hey, I miss this shit. I know my mama and daddy used to play this when I was a kid and it sounds familiar, but a lot of these artists are growing up like we did through hip hop. So that's how you end up with a D'Angelo, who looks like he's about to spit a verse, but he sits down in front of the pianos and start tickling the keys like an old jazz man.
Christina: But then he has some songs where he sings with a rap cadence.
Miguel: Yeah, exactly. So they were babies of hip hop just like we were, and it influenced their music too. So that's what I think it was. I don't think it was a backlash or a pushback to it. It was more of—
Christina: The coming of age of these artists who like, maybe they grew up with their parents listening to the ‘70s music, but then they grew up listening to hip hop and then boom.
Miguel: Let's go ahead and put these two things together. That's just me.
Christina: Nah, that makes sense because when you see a lot of their interviews and they talk about their influences, it's always a mix of the classic soul artists plus the hip hop.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So, of course, if you like both, you're gonna find a way to mix it together.
Miguel: Exactly. And I also feel that because these artists are in our peer group, they actually belong to us. Whereas you did have artists who were making similar type music prior to the Neo Soul era like Sade, for example. But that didn't feel like it belonged to us. This is like our parents and aunts and uncles. And Erykah and Maxwell and D'Angelo—
Christina: That's us.
Miguel: Yeah, they belong to us.
Christina: That makes sense. Not like, this is my mama's music.
Miguel: Right. Like we like it.
Christina: I like it because my mom used to listen to it.
Miguel: But this is similar but different. Same, same but different. And this is for us.
Christina: Right. One of the things I saw that was kind of funny when I was just watching all these random things about why people hate the term Neo Soul because they were like, what do you mean it's new? Like soul music never left. Are we going to call it Neo Soul 10, 20 years from now? And it's like, yeah, because we don't have a better label for that time.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So it's not new soul anymore in 2025, but it does label that time.
Miguel: Yes.
[transition music]
Miguel: All right, so now that we've gotten that out of the way, let's talk about some of the albums that define this particular era. I'm gonna list off a song—or an album and artists, and you give me your quick thoughts on the album. So let's start with what is looked at as the foundation of Neo Soul, D’Angelo's Brown Sugar.
Christina: Still one of my favorite albums ever. It's still my favorite D’Angelo album, even though we had mentioned this before when we talked about him, like some of the other ones musically might have been better. But I think just because this was my introduction, I have this like, personal connection to this album.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: And I still love it today as much as I did then. It's funny that, you know, this album is considered one of the early pioneers of this quote unquote new sound at the time. But to me, it kind of feels like an extension of like Jodeci, which was the classic R&B/soul/gospel with the hip hop edge. Like, if you like “Come and Talk to Me,” you're gonna like “Lady.”
Miguel: Yeah. Yeah, I can see it.
Christina: So, I think that's probably why when you were like, you know, what was my first memory is just like, no, this is just like a singular Jodeci a couple of years later. But yeah, it's like classic.
Miguel: OK.
Christina: For you, what about Voodoo? How do you feel about that? What are your quick thoughts?
Miguel: Similar to what you just said, this album isn't what you typically think of when you think Neo Soul. But there's a couple songs on there that definitely fit the whole Neo Soul sound. Typically, when you think of Neo Soul, you think of live instrumentation, very little sampling, but it has a really analog feel. Whereas this album, it's kind of all over the place. You've got some rock elements, you got some hip hop elements. And as I said, when we did the D'Angelo episode, my two favorite songs on here are “Spanish Joint” and “Devil's Pie,” and they couldn't be more opposite from each other. Today, I'm feeling “Devil's Pie.” When we did the D'Angelo episode, I said “Spanish Joint,” but today I'm going with “Devil's Pie.” I'm feeling more hip hop-ish along with it.
Christina: I think that album encompasses how, even within the genre of R&B or hip hop, there's still a wide variety of styles that we like. You can like a “Left and Right” and a “Spanish Joint,” and it can be on the same album. It makes sense. And you have artists that have all those different influences that can make an album with all these different. So that's probably why they didn't like the Neo Soul label. Like, I'm more than that.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: I think a lot of that's missing from today with the risk of sounding old. But we say that all the time. And we are old, so.
Miguel: I'm not old. I'm classic.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: There's a difference.
Christina: Anyway.
Miguel: So this one is very controversial, at least for you, for me. And I'll get into it in a little bit. But what do you think about Maxwell's Urban Hang Suite?
Christina: Also, one of my favorite albums ever. And also my favorite Maxwell album as well. I don't know if because this album sounds a little bit more classic soul, that it still holds up for me today because that sound was already classic when it came out. Does that make sense? It was not like, could he get older if it already sounded like classic soul?
Miguel: Right.
Christina: I mean, it didn't sound old. It did sound refreshed, but it didn’t…it wasn't like a Timbaland where it's like, oh, what's that? We've never heard these sounds before.
Miguel: What the hell is this?
Christina: Yeah. So to me, the album aged gracefully because it was already a classic style. Yeah.
Miguel: Well, I have issues with the album. I used to have issues with the album. And you know this that maybe, what, 15 years ago, we were listening to some Maxwell. I don't remember if it was this album or another one, but we were painting the living room and we just had some music playing all day. And it had been on for a little bit. And just out of nowhere, I thought to myself, I really don't like this.
Christina: Shocking.
Miguel: I thought that I liked D'Angelo—I thought that I liked Maxwell. I had the albums. I listened to the albums, but it just hit me like, I don't really like it. It seems like something that I should like and—
Christina: Our listeners can't see, but I'm shaking my head.
Miguel: She is. She's shaking her head. But it just felt like I didn't really like it. And I didn't know why. And like I said, it felt like something that I should like. So I just went along with it. I fell victim to peer pressure. And I realized I really didn't like it. But then I guess age and time has kind of swung me back around. So I was listening to it this week and was like, yeah, I do like it. I guess I was just at a different stage that I didn't need Maxwell in my life at the time.
Christina: I guess.
Miguel: I don't know. I can't explain it.
Christina: I always need Maxwell in my life.
Miguel: I'm aware. But I've come back around to Maxwell over the past week or so. I guess I'll put him back in my rotation.
Christina: Yeah, this album was just like, it was soulful, but it was also like playful and like just how he, like his persona and stuff. I loved it. And it was very different for the time. I mean, even now, I guess it's like what other, I'm trying to think of who is similar. Oh, actually The Weeknd.
Miguel: Okay, explain this.
Christina: I don't listen to The Weeknd's music that much, but I was watching a more recent interview with Maxwell. So he, his hair is still out, but it's not as long as it used to be. He had a little bit of like, more facial hair than he usually does. And I was like, why does he look like an older Weeknd in this interview, right? And then I see this other article that The Weeknd said he's like, inspired by Maxwell.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So I'm like, oh, that makes sense that it's more not that Maxwell looks like The Weeknd is that The Weeknd looks like Maxwell.
Miguel: Yes, that's where it's going.
Christina: So I mean, I can't say for certain, I don't listen enough to Weeknd. I just know he makes like vibey music, but I don’t—
Miguel: The Weeknd makes cocaine music. If you're getting high on cocaine and going to a club in Hollywood, The Weeknd is the soundtrack to that.
Christina: The only Weeknd song I listen to is the one on the Black Panther soundtrack. So yeah, but I think style wise, now I can see the connection. I'm like, oh, I get it. Now I get his deal.
Miguel: I'm going to have to work on that one. I don't know if I can get on board, but I'll try.
Christina: But I don't know. But I do know I like Maxwell. That I know.
What about the Love Jones soundtrack?
Miguel: See, this soundtrack, it basically lets you know what was happening in Black America in 1997. Like this describes everything about that time frame.
Christina: Because they give you like, yeah, this album gives you a little bit of all the different artists.
Miguel: Because you have some covers on there, you have some current quote unquote Neo Soul stuff on there, you have some stuff that's not Neo Soul on there. And like I said, it's just a time capsule of Black America in 1997. I put it on and somehow ended up wearing a leather jacket, a satin shirt underneath, open to like mid chest.
Christina: Did you go out and get some motherfucking toasted oats?
Miguel: I didn't do that. I didn't do that. But I was listening to it in the car when I did go to the store. I forget what I went to get, but I had it on. So I did go out.
Christina: You went to get milk for your toasted oats.
Miguel: You're correct. I did go get milk.
Christina: You did. Well, also one of my favorite movies ever.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: I just rewatched it a couple of weeks ago and finally purchased it so that I can have my own copy.
Miguel: So it doesn't get taken away from you.
Christina: And I downloaded it and removed it from the default Apple folder and put on to my hard drive.
Miguel: So it's there forever.
Christina: It's mine now.
Miguel: Oh man. So what were your thoughts on that first Badu album?
Christina: I remember seeing the “On & On” video[1] and thinking she's a little quirky.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But I loved her from the beginning because she was just, she's different. She's like one of a kind. And then you have the video for “Next Lifetime”[2] with her impressive roster. Like, how do you end up with a hottie in every single lifetime?
Miguel: Because that's how she rolls.
Christina: Yeah. That's like, that's life.
Miguel: It's not very far from her real life.
Christina: It is not. I was just, I remember watching the video and like we were saying how even though some of the artists encompass this sort of like, ooh, love and light and spirituality, she had all these rappers in her video. So then you still had that, you know, I grew up hearing soul music, but I'm also a child of hip-hop all just mashed into one. And she was also, her and D'Angelo had the song, “Your Precious Love” on the High School High soundtrack. So that came out before Baduizm. So I imagine I had heard that first since I had the CD. So I don't think it was really like a big departure. If I'm already introduced to her via D'Angelo. But yeah, I just remember thinking she was like, she's different.
Miguel: That's one way of putting it. That video is very entertaining. She's running around through houses, falling on her face and getting covered in mud, chasing chickens. It was all over the place.
Christina: Kind of like um, what’s that book, The Color Purple, an ode to The Color Purple.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: What about her next album, Mama's Gun?
Miguel: I actually like this one a little bit better than Baduizm. I didn't think so until listening to them both back to back this week. But this is another album that you could just put on and let rock from front to back.
Christina: I would say pretty much the majority of these quote unquote Neo Soul artists, like you know how like lo-fi playlists are all the rage for people who want to like study and work and whatever. Same with Neo Soul. It's just like you just leave it.
Miguel: Yeah, because this album doesn't get too high or too low. It just kind of stays within one range. You don't get any really fast up tempo songs, nothing really too slow. It just kind of stays right there in the middle.
Christina: Right. I think I like Baduizm better as like a full album, but like Mama's Gun had some singles hit bigger for me.
Miguel: Although I'm upset that the “Bag Lady” remix isn't on the album.
Christina: Which we were tricked with a lot back in those days. You watch a video and you're like, oh, and then you buy the CD and you're like, where is it?
Miguel: Yeah. But unlike a lot of times, I'm OK with the album version of “Bag Lady,” whereas sometimes you get the album version like, oh, this is shit.
Christina: It's nice, but it's not—I still prefer the video version though.
Miguel: Yeah, me too. But like I said, it wasn't like, oh, what the fuck is this?
Christina: Definitely gotten that before.
Miguel: Like I did with The Fugees.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Anyway, anyway, let's move on.
[transition music]
Miguel: Someone who kind of predates the Neo Soul era with Tony! Toni! Toné!, he went solo around this time and released Instant Vintage. What was your thoughts on Raphael Saadiq's album?
Christina: Well, that also wasn't a hard transition since I listened to Tony! Toni! Toné! already, and he's already the lead singer, so now it's just like him by himself. But it wasn't like something completely different. I mean, it was different from Tony! Toni! Toné!, but it was still him. Plus, before this album came out, he still—he had a couple of songs like “Ask Of You,” and what's the other one on the just “Me And You,” even though it's credited as Tony! Toni! Toné!, on the Boyz In The Hood soundtrack.
So yeah, this wasn't a hard transition. Also, again, you have this group of artists that it feels like they're just basically one big super group. Because he had “Be Here” with D'Angelo, so it's like everybody got a song with somebody at least too. So it's just like, okay, if you listen to D'Angelo, you're going to listen to Raphael Saadiq. If you listen to Erykah, you're going to listen to The Roots. If you listen to Jill Scott, like, you know, everyone's kind of together.
Miguel: And that has a lot to do with like another group of people that don't like this term either. But the Soulquarians, they did Mama's Gun, Voodoo, Like Water For Chocolate, The Roots, Things Fall Apart and one of J Dilla's early albums (Welcome 2 Detroit) all around the same time. So a lot of that stuff was being done in multiple rooms in this studio at the same time. So that's why it was like sounding the same and felt the same. And it influenced a lot of other artists outside of that, too. So like you said, people are dipping into studios and working on Raphael's album. And then I'm going to go over here and work on D'Angelo's album. So there's a reason for that.
Christina: I think, though, I will say, I think at the time, I didn't expect Raphael Saadiq and D'Angelo to have a song together. Like I didn't know that there was that connection. I was like, oh, these two have a song together. Right. But now I know. Yeah, so for me, I actually never bought like the full CD. So I hadn't listened to the full album until recently. There were like songs that I like, “Be Here,” of course, “Still Ray,” a couple others. But yeah, I never listened to the entire album at the time.
Miguel: Interesting.
Christina: No reason in particular. I'm not sure why. I don't have a reason because…
Miguel: It happened.
Christina: I liked the singles, so.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: I don't know why I didn't get the whole thing. My Columbia House membership ran out, I guess. I don't know.
Miguel: You couldn't get it for a penny?
Christina: A penny anymore. What do you think of Acoustic Soul?
Miguel: Kind of like you with Instant Vintage, this is an album that I had never heard in full until this week because, OK, I'm going to say this and it might sound bad to some people who appreciate this from India.Arie, but I really don't. The production and the instrumentation on her albums sound good, but I particularly don't care about what she's singing about. It's kind of like you in your music when it's a little too positive. You can't rock with it.
Christina: But I think there's a specific group this is for.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And that earnestness is probably what's the word I'm looking for. Like, appreciated. That's not the word I'm looking for, close enough. But for me, it just it's too earnest.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But then also, I'm like, I'm also not the target audience, maybe. So, I don't know.
Miguel: That's true.
Christina: Maybe that's why I'm like, eh.
Miguel: But unlike you, I am the target audience and it still doesn't do anything for me.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Although the only songs I knew were “Video” and I was just eh like on that.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But “Brown Skin” is a jam. Yeah, I do like that one. And it's not lost on me that “Video” and Akinyele’s “Put it in Your Mouth” have the same sample.
Christina: Oh, Lord.
Miguel: I find that fucking hilarious. But yeah, the album was cool. Like I said, the production sounds good. The instrumentation sounds good. Her voice sounds good.
Christina: Yeah, like the music sounds good.
Miguel: Yeah, I just have no interest in listening to it.
Christina: Yeah, I think like even though like I get the intention of the song “Video,” but I guess to me, I looked at her and I was like, well, she's still pretty. She's still thin. She's still, you know, like, yeah, she's a dark-skinned Black woman. So there's that. But to me, she's still conventionally beautiful. So, that's why it…like, I get what she was like, trying to say on there. But I'm like, you're still pretty.
Miguel: You still a video girl. I think you can be in the video.
Christina: You like, have a nice slender figure. Your skin is amazing. I get the that she's not considered conventionally beautiful by a certain group.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: So, I do get what she's saying. But I'm like, but you're too pretty for this song to make sense to me. But that's why I'm like, saying, like, I get it, but it doesn't. It doesn't speak to me personally.
Miguel: And like is that for me?
Christina: I just don't like music that’s too earnest.
Miguel: Yeah, it's just a little too positive for me. Because and we're going to get into this with the next album. But like Jill Scott, I love Jill Scott's album. And she was singing about some of the same things as Indie.Arie But she's also threatening to beat bitches up.
Christina: “You gettin’ in the way…”
Miguel: Call me low brow, call me whatever you want. But I find that entertaining. That's all. And speaking of, Jilly from Philly, what were your thoughts on Who is Jill Scott?
Christina: So similar to your revelation about Maxwell, I had that revelation about Jill Scott too. Here I am thinking, I'm like, oh, I'm totally a fan of Jill Scott. I love “The Way,” I love “Gettin’ In The Way.” I love “Long Walk,” blah, blah, blah. Realized I've never bought an entire album as well. And you know, aside from handful of singles that I really love, I don't like, it's not like when I go to put something on, oh, let me listen to some Jill Scott. But again, she's in that group. Why don't I love her as much as I love everybody else?
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: It's like, I almost feel guilty about it. But then we saw her perform live. I think it was Made in America?
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like, she is amazing live. I really enjoyed her performance. But then I go home and I won't put on an album necessarily. I'll put the songs on a playlist.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Some of the singles. Like, she definitely will be part of my Neo Soul playlist.
Miguel: Of course.
Christina: But it's not really like, let me listen to some Jill Scott today. But I will see her perform live again if given the opportunity.
Miguel: But yeah, she did a really nice set when we saw her.
Christina: Yeah. So I have a little guilt over not being a bigger fan. Like, it's a nice album. Like I said, there's a handful of singles that I really like. But for the most part, she's not like, my go-to.
Miguel: I was all in on this album. And I've been playing it all week too.
Christina: Right. And of course, there's that weird video of the skit of them doing “A Long Walk.” Now, I can't hear the song the same way again, because I just think it's the dude. If you don't know, it's just this weird skit video. But there's this guy who gets his girl taken from him because he's not paying attention to her.
Miguel: And then they're singing “A Long Walk” really badly.[3]
Christina: And screaming into his ear as his girl's getting taken. “LET’S TAKE! A LONG WALK!”
Miguel: If we find the video, we'll post it on the website so you can go check it out.
Christina: It's horrible and hilarious at the same time.
Miguel: I was actually watching Jill's video for “A Long Walk,” and I completely forgot about this. But there's a clip of a little boy because as she's walking down the street, everybody in the neighborhood is following her to this girl's house. And there's a little boy that lives across the street from the woman.
Christina: Oh, that's “Gettin’ In The Way.”
Miguel: Because she's just on the stroll and “A Long Walk.” But “Gettin’ In The Way,” they're following her to...
Christina: Go watch the fight.
Miguel: To watch this go down. And there's a little boy that lives across the street, and he's got a little plastic chair, and he sits it down in front of the girl's house from across the street, and he just sits there, crosses his arms. Like, I can't wait to see this shit. He's like, three.
Christina: I’m gonna have to look that up.
Miguel: Yeah, and in the video, after he sees the fight and whatnot, and she snatches the girl wig off, he's sitting there clapping.[4] It's hilarious.
Christina: Nosy little boy already.
Miguel: Yeah, it is funny.
Christina: So you're just born nosy?
Miguel: I guess so. He shouldn’t know that he got to go sit and watch this fight, but he brought his own chair. It's like a toy chair made for a child. And he sat it on the curb and he was waiting.
Christina: Okay. I have no good way to segue into this, but what are your thoughts on the next album on our list, The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill?
Miguel: I think I mentioned this when we did the anniversary episode about this album. The first five songs are amazing. The album itself sounds amazing, but the problem I have with this album is that there is too much recreational sadness in it for me. And you know I don't like sad for the sake of sad.
Christina: I don't mind.
Miguel: She's going through some things.
Christina: But you like My Life.
Miguel: I do, but My Life is really up tempo and you can dance to it.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Like you can't really dance to Lauryn's pain on this album. Like when she gets in the trenches, it's slow, it's like, oh, woe is me type stuff. Whereas with Mary, you can still bop along to it. So like I said, it sounds good. The production is good, but I just can't do the “why you treat me do bad” for 12 songs. But it's a great album, though.
Christina: I didn't mind it at the time. It just didn't hold up for me.
Miguel: Yeah, that too.
Christina: That's all. That's all I'm going to say.
Miguel: It was a different album for a different time. But, like I said, you listen to the first five, and it's just hitting you over the head, one after another, with how good they are. After that, it just is like, oh, I don't want to be depressed with you. I need to get out of this.
Christina: Yeah, it didn't bother me. I liked it at the time. The only thing that bothered me, even from the beginning, is I hated those skits.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: “Love…”
Miguel: Yeah. I get why they're there.
Christina: But I just didn't like them. I was like, shut up, next. And I think if my memory serves me correct, they weren't even in their own tracks, so you had to physically skip it.
Miguel: Yeah, they were part of the songs.
Christina: I hated them. Like, “love!” I just did not like it.
Miguel: Oh man. So outside of the big three, D'Angelo, Badu and Maxwell, what other artists from this era do you like? Whether that's artists, their songs, a couple albums that you always go back to.
Christina: There was Adriana Evans.
Miguel: I had that on my list.
Christina: I love the “Seeing Is Believing” was her first single, I believe.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: But the whole album to me is no skip. “Seeing Is Believing” and now I'm forgetting the song titles. The whole album.
Miguel: “Love Is All Around.”
Christina: “Love Is All Around.”
Miguel: If you watch the video for anybody listening, it looks like she's in Paris recording the video, or somewhere in France, and there's a bunch of school kids that pass her and they're all waving at her. But this little one white kid just throws a W up hard.
Christina: Somebody's been listening to Tupac.
Miguel: Exactly. He just hit her with a W real hard.[5]
Christina: That was hilarious. But that's not the song I was thinking of. It's an album cut. It's just called “Love Me.” It's kind of like a mid-tempo song. It's very cute. But there's mid-tempo ones and then there's slow songs. But the whole album, I used to listen to it all the time. And then there is Davina, Best of Both Worlds.
Miguel: I had never listened to that until you told me about it the other day.
Christina: I'm surprised. Oh, wait. Did you know who she was?
Miguel: No.
Christina: I'm surprised because the first single, “Come Over To My Place,” I think it was that song. There's a remix with Raekwon. No, no, no. There's a remix of Ghostface, I mean.
Miguel: I don't know it at all.
Christina: So I'm surprised. I figured you had at least heard that one or something.
Miguel: Nope, it went right past me somehow.
Christina: So one thing I hate about Tidal is if there are artists with the same names, they don't make any distinction.
Miguel: Yeah, I hate that.
Christina: So if you look up Davina and if you happen to be listening to it on Tidal, it's the first album called Best Of Both Worlds. I don't know who the hell all these other weirdos Davinas are, but Best Of Both Worlds, it's the first in the list. Forget whatever all those weirdos are, they are not the Davina I'm talking about. But same like I used to listen to this album all the time, front to back. It's like perfect to just have on.
Miguel: OK.
Christina: And Angel Grant, which is another person that you hadn't heard of, which I'm surprised because they did a whole spot on her on Planet Groove. She was the first artist signed to Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis' Flyte Tyme. Is that what their thing was called? And they were like really pushing her. But this album, which was also just called Album.
Miguel: Yeah, that was funny.
Christina: It just kind of came and went.
Miguel: Yeah, I hadn't heard of any of it until you showed it to me the other day.
Christina: Yeah, “Lil’ Red Boat” was, I believe, the first single. She had a couple of singles. But yeah, they used to play it on BET all the time. “Lil’ Red Boat”, at least. Like I said, she had a whole episode[6] on Planet Groove with Rachel.
Miguel: Yeah, I completely missed it.
Christina: Oh, yeah. This is very like, oh, Neo Soul, because she had like the incense and the spiritual sitting on pillows and all that stuff. And like she had the like, you know, the jewelry and like the henna tattoo, all that stuff.
Miguel: OK. She was all in.
Christina: That was very one end of the Neo Soul spectrum. Yeah. So those three I decided to mention today. And also just noticed there was a lot of women who represented this time.
Miguel: It was the majority of the stuff that I listened to that was quote unquote Neo Soul was from the ladies.
Christina: Yeah. And I think it kind of reminds me a little bit of how we said in the 90s, there was this sort of resurgence of like, it's the 90s, you know, us women are out, we can do our own thing now and we've got the power, blah, blah, blah.
Miguel: Sisters doing it for themselves.
Christina: Sisters doing it for themselves. And I feel like the Neo Soul era kind of brought in that sort of independence again as well among female artists, women and such. Well, what about you?
Miguel: The ones that I had on my list, I have two, same that you picked, Adriana Evans. So no need to go over that one again. But also one that I hadn't heard before until this week was the Jazzyfatnastees album, The Once And Future. I had heard them on several songs throughout the years because they were part of the circle that The Pharcyde was in. So they were on The Pharcyde’s album. They were on songs with Outkast, with The Roots, I think De La Soul. So they were known, but I had never heard their album. And when I listened to it this week, I recognized the first single, “The Wound,” but I hadn't heard the rest of it. And it's a pretty solid album.
Christina: I agree with everything you said. I thought I knew them and I realized I didn't.
Miguel: Yeah. But the album is really good. So if there's something that maybe you guys haven't heard from the Jazzyfatnastees, this is a good entry point. That's all I got.
Christina: Oh, nobody else?
Miguel: No, I only did two.
Christina: Let me bring up some Canadian representation. Ol’ Remy Shand, we were talking about earlier.
Miguel: Remington.
Christina: Remington. Yes. Remy Shand. He has three pretty like his three singles are all pretty good. But my favorite one is still “Rocksteady.”
Miguel: And I'm going to “Take a Message” guy.
Christina: I like “Rocksteady.” I like the little groove he adds to it.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So, he's hailing from Winnipeg.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Totally unexpected. I was like, what province is Winnipeg? You know, one of the middle provinces. I think it's Manitoba. I should know. But I don't. I'm pretty sure it's Manitoba. But yeah. And Glenn Lewis, which you didn't know was Canadian.
Miguel: I didn't know he was Canadian until what? Like, a year ago. You told me or something.
Christina: Yeah. So, just big up the Canadian artists that were also of that time.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Since you only had, well, technically two on your list, but I stole one.
Miguel: You did.
Christina: Yeah. There are. I mean, there are so many. If I just listed off everybody, we'd be here all day.
Miguel: Exactly. That's why I kept mine to just two.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: All right. So this is a good time for us to take a break. And we'll be right back.
[Break]
Miguel: Hi, kids. Do you like fun?
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And bookmarking a bunch of articles you'll probably never read? We're starting a monthly newsletter called Liner Notes. We'll be sharing what we're watching, what we're listening to, throwback YouTube videos, updates on our upcoming projects, random shit you may have missed on the Internet, you know, stuff like that. The link is in the show notes, or you can go to troypodcast.com/newsletter. Do it. It's good for you.
Christina: It'll make your teeth whiter.
Miguel: And back to the show.
Miguel: Okay, we are back and we are still talking about the Neo Soul era. And earlier, we talked about the feel of the era, but it wasn't just about the music. There was a whole movement along with this. What do you remember about that specific time? Like I mentioned with the Love Jones soundtrack representing 1997. What do you remember about like the movies, the TV, the fashion, everything surrounding it?
Christina: Well, as I said earlier, I feel like there was like two ends of the spectrum. You had one end that still had the hip-hop influence with the leather jackets, although it was less colorful, so like black leather jackets, not the green and mustard jeans and that sort of thing was gone. I mean, we were wearing leather jackets earlier too, but they were probably like yellow.
Miguel: Yeah. This was more muted Earth tone vibe.
Christina: More muted, Earthy, very like, it makes you think of like big city vibes like Chicago, New York, like gritty. It was a little grittier, but there was also the other end, which was very Bohemian.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So the long flowy skirts and like the knit, this and that, head wraps and stuff. There was like a lot of Afrocentricity. There was even like a lot of like Indian influences, as I was saying with Angel Grant, like the henna tattoos and like the jewelry and stuff. Right. Very Earthy. I had an ankh ring. I ain't gonna lie. I did not wear those bohemian skirts and this and that, but I did have a ring with an ankh on it.
Miguel: Oh man. I didn't dip too far into either spectrum.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: I wasn't on the Erykah Badu and The Roots. I'm wearing the head wraps.
Christina: Did you have a medallion of any sort?
Miguel: I didn't, but I was more along the lines of like-
Christina: D'Angelo.
Miguel: D'Angelo, baggy jeans. Didn't do Timbs in LA, but a pair of Jordans, Air Force 1s. I had a leather jacket.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: I'm not going to lie. I had a big leather jacket. Didn't need it in LA, but I did have one. I didn't do the Maxwell look either with the sheer shirt, unbuttoned to my navel with the hard bottoms on. I didn't go the Shamar Moore route, but I did appreciate the wide range of women.
Christina: Yeah. Yes.
Miguel: We were chasing in those days.
Christina: I think the styles for women was way more varied.
Miguel: Yeah. So I could chase one of the head wrap girls and then go over here and chase the ones who dress like they get ready to go to a happy hour at Applebee's too.
Christina: Right. They take off their jackets after 5 p.m. and we're ready to party.
Miguel: Right. So that was my take on it. And it was also for the everyday folks, whereas you have the big rappers out with their platinum chains and their diamonds and whatnot. Like I said, a lot of these people were dressed like they were going to happy hour after work. It was just really low key. We're not going to the clubs every weekend popping bottles. Like we go into the club maybe once every two weeks when we get paid.
Christina: It was a little more down to earth.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: The music and the style was like down to earth.
Miguel: Yeah. And that was with everything, even like the TV shows.
Christina: Actually, that just that reminds me of like the line in “Lady” is he's going to pick you up at your job.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: In the video, like, her job is like the Rite Aid[7] or something.
Miguel: I don't even remember.
Christina: It's something very like just average. Yeah.
Miguel: But yeah, the TV shows and movies, everything encompassed all of this, even if they weren't like portraying the Neo Soul lifestyle. For example, Martin, as silly as that show was, had a lot of Neo Soul elements to it in terms of some of the music he would listen to, and some of the clubs they would go to, and some of the things they would get involved in.
Miguel: Pam and Gina were definitely the happy hour type girls.
Christina: Like they had jobs and they were successful, but it wasn't like popping bottles on a Tuesday.
Miguel: It was just your nine to five-ers, basically.
Christina: They had their little power suits and their power pumps, but they had jobs.
Miguel: And like movies like Brown Sugar, Love Jones, like we mentioned before, it was a wide range of things that was happening in 1997, 1998, 1999. And the crazy thing is we were taking on this grown and sexy vibe and whatnot.
Christina: At like 23.
Miguel: Yeah, we're far away from being grown or sexy.
Christina: Like ’97, I've just finished high school. I was like 18.
Miguel: I'm in college. I'm far from grown and sexy, but you couldn't tell me that I wasn't though. Just because I had a Maxwell CD and then you come to find out 10 years later, I wasn't even really fucking with Maxwell like that.
Christina: Going to the club with a pencil skirt on.
Miguel: Yeah. So yeah, it was a good time. It was a fun time. And yeah, I liked it.
Christina: Okay. So what were some of—I mean, you might have mentioned it already with the wide range of ladies you were able to chase. But what were some of your favorite non-music moments?
Miguel: That's what I was going to say. That was literally my answer. You know me well. So you had all of these women to choose from. You had your smart, nerdy girl. You had your, I'm going to wear the low-cut jeans with my tank top girl. You had everything to choose from. It was like Baskin-Robbins 31 flavors. And for a young man in Los Angeles, it was great. So just being out as a young person during this time is some of my favorite times in life. So I would say that was some of my favorite non-music moments in this era.
Christina: Yeah, I think, you know, when you are 18, 19, 20, 23, whatever, like now we're like, we were a bunch of babies, but at the time you feel grown and sexy. So I think that time just like, you know, I'm just like coming out of high school and then coming out of university. It just kind of felt like, like I'm grown now. It's like the music and the time kind of tracked my ascent into adulthood. Yes. So now I'm like, I was not an adult. I didn't technically I was an adult, but I was a baby. And even the stuff that I thought that I thought resonated with me, it's like, no, I was kind of childish. I was not having mature relationships.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But then again, at the same time, when you think of movies like Love Jones, I mean, they were a little older, but it was still that. I think that's what I loved about Love Jones. It wasn't like this perfect love story. So it felt just like the music. It felt real. It felt down to earth. It felt like, oh, like this is life.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: It can be life. Yeah.
Miguel: So with that said, are there any current artists that you feel fit the Neo Soul label in 2025?
Christina: At first, I was like, I don't know. I was like, is there? And then I kind of thought about it a little bit more. And I was like, OK, there’s…I think some of Solange's music. Yeah. And the one that always shocked me because I didn't know anything about them before, was The Internet.
Miguel: You're just taking all my stuff today.
Christina: I thought they were just going to be a bunch of hooligans.
Miguel: Yeah, because they're part of Odd Future.
Christina: Yeah. And then I put the album on and I'm like, what is this Brand New Heavies music here? And I love that album. What's the title again? Because they have a few, but that one, I particularly like. I forgot what it was called.
Miguel: I don't know which one you're referring to, but it's probably Ego Death.
Christina: Yes, that's the one[8]. So I was shocked when I heard that because I just thought it was going to be a bunch of like weirdo rap music that I don't like because I'm old. And then Steve Lacy, which is basically he was in The Internet, right?
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Right. And Lucky Daye, who also has a song where he samples Musiq Soulchild. So that's like literally making Neo Soul music right there. It's like almost the same song. And Mac Ayres, Ayres, which I had talked about a while back, one of our episodes about like new R&B for old heads. Yeah. Oh, and this article that you had sent me with like, you know, 25 Neo Soul artists to check out for in 2025 and I was like, ugh, nope, nope, nope, nope. But there was one group that I want to check out a little bit more. They're called Children of Zeus.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: And it's a duo, I believe, and they're from the UK. So it sounded pretty interesting, but I have to dive into a little bit more.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: But they had this one song, I can't say, I'm not saying it's never happened, but one of their songs had like a little reggae beat underneath. They sound like Neo Soul reggae. That's not like all the music, but just the one that one song I happen to listen to, but that's, they don't do like all reggae songs. But that was interesting. So I'm going to dive into them a little bit more.
Miguel: Okay. Someone I'm going to choose is also an “innit” from the UK.
Christina: Innit!
Miguel: She's an “innit.” But Cleo Sol.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: I like what she's doing.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: I listened to her first album and bits and pieces of the others in between. And I really like her stuff. I think you would too. If you were to listen to it, it's right up your alley.
Christina: I will check her out.
Miguel: And also, he doesn't really do like Neo Soul type music all the time. But Anderson .Paak's Malibu album is very Neo Soul.
Christina: He can do it.
Miguel: He can do it.
Christina: And sometimes does it.
Miguel: Yeah. And a lot of the stuff he does with Knxwledge, like the NxWorries song or albums, have a lot of Neo Soul in it as well. And my other choice was The Internet. But you've already taken that and spoke about them.
Christina: I stole it.
Miguel: You did. You stole the Internet.
Christina: You shouldn't let me speak first.
Miguel: I shouldn't. That's what I get for being a gentleman.
Christina: Heh.
Miguel: So those are the three that I would suggest that people go and check out if they're not already listening to. I'm sure they're listening to .Paak, though, because he's everywhere.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But maybe they're not listening to Anderson .Paak on the new NxWorries stuff. So check that out. He has quite the catalog.
Christina: He does. He does.
Miguel: I think that's a good spot for us to take another break.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: And we'll be right back.
[break]
Christina: We wanted to take a minute to make a small request of all our listeners. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Goodpods or Podchaser, leave us a five-star rating. You can also leave a review as well on Apple, Goodpods and Podchaser. Ratings and reviews will help us with discoverability, and we want to get this out to as many like-minded folks as we can.
Miguel: We want to get on the first page of these podcast apps.
Christina: And to move up on the charts as well. So help us get the word out.
Miguel: Make sure to follow and interact with us on social media. We're @troypodcast on the ‘gram and the bird. Also check out our website, troypodcast.com. It's where we post links to a lot of the things that we mentioned in the show, as well as transcripts and themed playlists that supplement our episodes and more.
Christina: Thank you again for your support.
Miguel: And we are back. So we're going to close out this episode with a couple questions. And I would like for the listeners to think about this as well, but we are going to give our takes on it. And then you can tell us if you like our choices or...
Christina: Or tell us your choices.
Miguel: Tell us your choices.
Christina: You can leave some comments on our socials.
Miguel: Yes. So the question is this: if you were to put together a Neo Soul tour today, which four artists or groups would you put on the lineup? And who would be the headline?
Christina: Okay. So I'm going to start—the opener will be Angel Grant, just to reintroduce her or introduce her to folks who don't know, because I really, really like the album.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: And you had no idea who she was.
Miguel: I didn't.
Christina: I'm sure there are people who do know, and I'm sure people who don't know. So I think she would be a good opener.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: And then we're going to, bam, go right into D'Angelo.
Miguel: Oh, okay.
Christina: And I'll tell you why. First, I was like, I need something in between Angel Grant and D'Angelo, and like the rest, I'll tell you. But I just couldn't make it work with an in between and keep it to four.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So we're going to, bam, go right into D'Angelo. And the reason why I chose him is he could do his set. And then we can transition into Erykah with “Your Precious Love.”
Miguel: Okay. I see what you're doing. You're not only putting together a show. You're giving me a set list.
Christina: I'm giving you a set list.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So now they perform “Your Precious Love,” then Erykah does her little set. And then I have a loophole.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So that’s—that's three artists, right? So then Erykah is going to perform with The Roots because they're the backing band. And then she's going to sing “You Got Me.” And then Jill Scott comes out. Bam! And they sing the chorus together. And then Jill closes out with her set. And then everybody comes together and they do like, I don't know, maybe they do like a cover or something at the end to like throw back to their—like maybe they sing some Marvin Gaye or something and just kind of close out the show with everybody on the stage. Just jammin’.
Miguel: Okay. I see what you're doing. And I'm laughing because I was using the exact same cheat and I was going to have The Roots as the band for everybody on this show.
Christina: Same. I was like, how can I make this work? Because I needed the transitions and I'm like, oh, yeah, they're the backing band.
Miguel: Yeah, that's where I was going to start with The Roots as the band for everybody. But I have a similar lineup.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: But the order is different.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: I didn't even have an opener because I figure the way I would do it is these three would rotate depending on where the show was. So first would be Jill Scott. Second would be the guy that the YouTube comments say gets no recognition and is very underrated. Nobody knows who he is, even though we all know who he is. Bilal.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: I would have Erykah Badu as third. So every show, those three would rotate who's going first, second, third.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: But D'Angelo would be the headline every night. So that would be my Neo Soul…
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: We've taken a cruise, seven day cruise tour with The Roots as the backing band. I thought I was only going to be able to get away with cheating like that, but you snuck in and did it too.
Christina: I sure did. See, the thing with mine though is you don't know that Jill Scott is going to be there. She's a surprise, a surprise for us because most people or most of us remember the song “You Got Me” with Erykah on it.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Because I mean, I didn't know for the longest time that Jill Scott was originally on it. So that would be the big surprise.
Miguel: Yeah, the only reason I knew is I had seen clips of them touring and performing and Erykah was never there. It was always Jill.[9]
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: OK.
Christina: It was probably how I found out too. I'm not sure when or how exactly I found it, but I was like, oh, when Jill sings it, I can actually hear the words. Now I can't remember them, though, because I still hear Erykah.
Miguel: Right. All you get to is, “you got me.”
Christina: [mumbling the lyrics] “You know that you got me.”
Miguel: Yeah, that's all you can understand.
Christina: That's fine. All right. So next question.
Miguel: OK.
Christina: If you were building the Mount Rushmore of Neo Soul, who would be on it?
Miguel: Now, unlike the tour, this is difficult and there's only one that well, actually two that I was like, they have to be there. And I'm going to save my surprise pick for last because I'm going to need to explain why. OK, so first up, we have to have D'Angelo on. He has to be there. Erykah has to be on it.
Christina: Yeah, you have the queen and the king.
Miguel: Yes. So those who have to be there. The third slot, there's a whole bunch of people that could be put on it. And even though I said 45 minutes ago, that I don't mess with his music anymore, but I'm back on board now, Maxwell.
Christina: Well see, even if you, I mean, now you're back on board, but even if you didn't, you still have to acknowledge his contribution.
Miguel: Yes, and I respect what he's done. So he would be number three, even if I hadn't got back on board or not. But number four, J Dilla.
Christina: OK, yes, that makes sense.
Miguel: He would have to be number four because his production style influenced the Soulquarians and the Soulquarians had a really big influence on what everybody else was doing throughout Neo Soul. So I'm going to say that Dilla deserves a spot on Neo Soul Mount Rushmore.
Christina: I don't disagree. Well, I think that's a good choice. And when you sent me the outline, I thought I was going to answer the first question and you were going to answer this one. So I didn't think about this.
Miguel: All right.
Christina: So I'm doing it on the fly. Okay, so my first three is the same. Like, you know, they're kind of the titans. And since I'm on the fly, I'm going to actually give the fourth slot to Kedar because he's the one that came up with the term.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So, you know, he can be up there too.
Miguel: I see what you're doing here.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: I get it. I get it because he did come up with the term.
Christina: Yep.
Miguel: It's kind of...
Christina: And he also like cultivated a lot of these artists.
Miguel: Yeah, he did. He signed a lot of them. He managed some of them.
Christina: Yep.
Miguel: So, yeah, I see what you're doing here.
Christina: Including bringing Remy Shand to Motown, which I want to bring up, which I hadn't planned on it because these comments on YouTube just get under my skin. But somebody was like, oh, the Americans are always gatekeeping music, which can happen. Like, you know, sometimes Canadian music is shunned, but like soul R&B hip hop music in Canada is shunned even worse. So you had like the guy who coined the term sign this boy from Winnipeg to Motown. But you over here talking about Americans always gatekeeping. Just how do you how are you a fan and you don't know the basics about the artist?
Miguel: He didn't get a record deal in Canada.
Christina: He sure didn't.
Miguel: So he came to America.
Christina: I'm sure if he stayed in Winnipeg, we would have no idea who he is.
Miguel: We wouldn't. I would not know anything about Remington Shand.
Christina: Right. Anyways, that's my last minute top of the mind pick.
Miguel: Okay. So that's your Mount Rushmore.
Christina: My Mount Rushmore.
Miguel: All right. I respect it. I respect it. So one thing I do want to say as we wrap this up, even though the golden era of Neo Soul was short-lived, it was only a few years in the mainstream, I will say that there was one person who never switched up on Neo Soul. Michael Jordan.
Christina: What?
Miguel: Michael Jordan in 2025 is still dressing like he's 1997. He got his bootcut jeans.
Christina: Hey, the bootcut's coming back.
Miguel: His leather jackets.
Christina: He knew it was coming back.
Miguel: I don't know if you remember when we were watching The Last Dance and he was on the bus.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: In the back of the bus grooving to some Kenny Lattimore. You can't convince me that Mike ain't still bumping Neo Soul.
Christina: Not only was he grooving to Kenny Lattimore, didn't he get like an advance copy?
Miguel: Yeah, he had it four months before it came out.
Christina: Like nobody who jams to Kenny Lattimore?
Miguel: Yes. Kenny Lattimore does not have a song in his catalog.
Christina: I like Kenny Lattimore.
Miguel: Me too.
Christina: But I'm not jamming to Kenny Lattimore.
Miguel: That requires anybody to do what Michael Jordan was doing in the back of that bus.[10]
Christina: So like he's listening to “Not Like Us.”
Miguel: Right. I just want to say that Michael Jordan never switched up on Neo Soul. He kept it going. He kept Neo Soul in his heart for 25, 30 years. Even though there have been other Neo Soul artists, Michael Jordan held it down for the old heads. I just want y'all to know that.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: That's all.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: You got anything you want to add to this? Any foolishness like that?
Christina: No, I don't think I can top that without thinking about something prior. But you surprised me with that. I got nothing else to say.
Miguel: I was holding on to that one all week.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: All week. I will say that if you guys want to listen to some more Neo Soul, we're going to be putting together a playlist. Actually, I've already started it. It's got Groove Theory, D'Angelo, Saadiq, Guapale, Les Nubians.
Christina: Yes. For a little en francais.
Miguel: Yes. India.Arie, Anthony Hamilton, a whole bunch of people. So go ahead, go to our website and check that out. troypodcast.com. You'll see all sorts of good stuff there. We'll have some footnotes, links to videos that you can check out on things that we spoke about in this episode. So make sure to do that.
If you want to get some merch, make sure to go to our store. That is teethang.com. That is T-E-E-T-H-A-N-G dot com. Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang. Get yourself some t-shirts. Hats. Mugs. All that stuff. Buy your mama something nice. Get yourself something nice. It's all good. Get some. We also have a monthly newsletter that comes out—
Christina: Monthly?
Miguel: Well, I was just gonna say between the first and the third of the month. It's called Liner Notes. It's free. Make sure you sign up if you haven't already at troypodcast.com/newsletter. There's videos. There's stuff that we're reading, stuff that we're watching.
Christina: Fun stuff.
Miguel: All the fun stuff. Come see your inbox once a month. Sign up. Get some goodies in your life.
Christina: I read it every month.
Miguel: Me too.
Christina: He writes it and I read it.
Miguel: That's really all I have to say right now. We'll be seeing you guys in two weeks with another episode. And that's it. Listen to some Neo Soul.
Christina: Like Michael Jordan. Jam to some Neo Soul.
Miguel: Yes. Bump some Kenny Lattimore more like Michael Jordan in 1998. That's all we got for this week. We'll be talking to y'all again soon.