Episode Summary
A lot of people that we now call stars, were once background singers and backup dancers. If you listen to some of your favorite songs or watch some videos you’ll recognize some voices and faces that you may have never noticed before. But not all of these stories have a superstar ending. A lot of people were able to carve out solid and recognizable careers, even if they weren’t household names. You definitely remember them, though. That's what we're discussing on this episode, some of your favorite hook singers like Tammy Lucas, Vinia Mojica and LaToiya Williams, as well as video and tour dancers like Oaktown's .357 (MC Hammer), Str8 Ahead (Bell Biv DeVoe) and Hot Dog (Chubb Rock).
Transcript
Miguel: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You, a podcast that takes a nostalgic look back at the best in music, movies and TV from the ‘80s, ‘90s and early 2000s. I'm Miguel.
Christina: And I'm Christina. And today we're gonna talk about some of our favorite unsung heroes. The backup singers and dancers that were technically in the background, but made a big impact in the foreground.
Miguel: They certainly did.
Christina: Yes, they gave us some catchy hooks to sing along with, some dance moves and fashion looks to copy.
Miguel: And I know all of them.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: Are you ready to get into it?
Christina: Let's do it. So a lot of people that we now call stars were once background singers and backup dancers. And if you listen to some of your favorite songs or watch some old music videos, you're going to recognize some voices and faces that you may not have noticed before.
Miguel: Yeah. And when you do notice it, you can't unhear it.
Christina: Because this has happened to us many times.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like, when we meant to talk about someone and then we're like, wait a minute, all of a sudden I hear Faith all over this Usher album. How did I never notice this?
Miguel: Exactly. So there's a lot of names just like that, that we didn't know at the time, but went on to be big stars. Like Whitney Houston, Mariah Carey, Mary J. Blige, as you said, Faith Evans. The one that really stuck out to me is K-Ci and JoJo on Tevin Campbell's album and on Ralph Tresvant's album. And now that I hear it, I can't unhear it.
Christina: Right. Because they have such recognizable voices.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But like, when you first hear them, you don't know who they are.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: You’re not gonna be like, oh, that's K-Ci and Jojo.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: On the dancing side, there's Jennifer Lopez.
Miguel: Yes. Probably the most famous.
Christina: Michael K. Williams and Rosie Perez.
Miguel: And there was one that I didn't know he was a dancer until a couple of days ago. And he's not as big a star as the rest of them, but he’s still known. Flex Alexander was a dancer for Salt-N-Pepa for like, three years before he got into stand up comedy.
Christina: I didn't realize he was a dancer too. Like I, you know, like, saw him in a couple of videos, but I didn't realize that he was a dancer. By the time I recognized him in videos, it's like, oh, that's Flex.
Miguel: Right. And that's where the name Flex comes from, is from his dancing.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Yeah. I was shocked to see that one recently.
Christina: I think for me, the surprising one was Mary J. singing background on a Jeff Redd song. Cause like, I knew her from Father MC.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But I remember I was just listening to the “You Called and Told Me” just, just listening to it. And then I just all of a sudden clearly heard her.
Miguel: That's funny.
Christina: And I was like, wait a minute, that's Mary J. Blige. I mean, it's not surprising because he was like, on Uptown too, right? But just like, just hearing it out of nowhere after listening to the song, who knows how many times.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Because I remember I told you.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And I was like, you got to listen to the song and listen to it at that, you know, time stamp. That's Mary, isn't it?
Miguel: Yeah. Before you pointed it out, I had never noticed it before.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Because it's not like I'm listening to Jeff Redd a lot this day and age. But even when the songs were out, I never paid attention to it.
Christina: I think it's also like we always say, we just have better headphones now, too.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And again, of course, now that they are established, we just know their voices.
Miguel: Right. I think the biggest surprise for me was finding out that Michael K. Williams was a club kid.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And dancing in videos for like, Crystal Waters and George Michael and shit.
Christina: Yeah. Like, not even like a hip hop dancer.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: He was like, doing house music and, you know, flitting around the dance floor.
Miguel: Because I had only known of him as the actor with the scar on his face, playing Tupac's brother in Bullet and, on The Wire and all these other things that he's done. And then you find out that he's a dancer. Like you said, a house music dancer, ballroom type dancer.
Christina: Graceful.
Miguel: Yeah. So that was surprising to me because it's completely opposite of all the roles he had up to that point, which came because of the scar.
Christina: Which gave him a certain look.
Miguel: Yeah, which allowed him to play these thug roles, but he actually got the scar in a fight at a club. So it's funny how that works out that way, that we don't even know where these people come from a lot of times and just assume that this is who they are. And then there's a video that came out of him dancing in the park[1] right before he passed. And it's like, that's who he was.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: Not Omar.
Christina: Yeah. Club kid at heart.
Miguel: Exactly. So not all of these stories have superstar endings where they go on to become big stars. But a lot of these folks that we're going to talk about were able to carve out recognizable careers that we paid attention to.
Christina: So even if they weren't like, quote unquote, big stars or household names, they still left an impact and had their place in changing the culture.
Miguel: Exactly. So we're going to take a quick break. But when we come back, we're going to take a look at some people who were in the back who didn't quite make it to superstar level. But like you said, still had a positive impact. So we'll be back.
[break]
Christina: We wanted to take a minute to make a small request of all our listeners. If you're listening to us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Goodpods or Podchaser, leave us a 5-star rating.
Christina: You can also leave a review as well on Apple, Goodpods and Podchaser. Ratings and reviews will help us with discoverability. And we want to get this out to as many like-minded folks as we can.
Miguel: We want to get on the first page of these podcast apps.
Christina: And to move up on the charts as well. So help us get the word out.
Miguel: Make sure to follow and interact with us on social media. We're @troypodcast on the ‘gram and the bird. Also, check out our website, troypodcast.com. It's where we post links to a lot of the things that we mentioned in the show, as well as transcripts and themed playlists that supplement our episodes and more.
Christina: Thank you again for your support.
Miguel: Okay, we are back. So right now we're going to get into some background singers who added a little zhuzh to some of our favorite songs.
Christina: Zhuzhed it.
Miguel: So yes, they sprinkled a little stuff on it like Salt Bae. So who do you have up first?
Christina: Well, I think the first person we have to talk about is Tammy Lucas because I feel like we always talk about her anyway.
Miguel: Somehow she makes her way into our episodes a lot.
Christina: And I feel like she was kind of the inspiration for this episode too, wasn't it? We were like, you know, we got to find a way to talk about her and people like her.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So as I said, we always find a way to kind of work her in because she's kind of just like, in a lot of things that we like.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And artists that we've talked about. So, you know, you'll hear her in two versions of “Is It Good To You”
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Heavy D's version and then her own full song version[2] with Teddy Riley.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: “1nce Again,” with Tribe Called Quest. She did a lot of stuff. See, I actually didn't know how much work she was doing with The Neptunes. So that was new to me. I didn't realize she did a lot of like, songwriting and stuff as well. And you sent me a link to the “Use Your Heart”[3] reference track. And I guess that kind of explains why we also hear her in a lot of album cuts, but then she gets taken out.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: In like, the video version.
Miguel: Once the videos come out, she's no longer on it.
Christina: So I guess that explains some of that. But to me, you know how people always talk about like, 90s fine? Which is like, you know, Nia Long, and Larenz Tate and people like that. To me, I feel like Tammy Lucas' voice is like, the soundtrack to 90s fine. Does that make sense?
Miguel: I get what you're saying. That does make sense because of all the stuff that she was on. For example, her being on Heavy D's “Is It Good To You,” is a perfect representation of 90s hip hop slash R&B, and she fit into the song perfectly.
Christina: And then like, the version with Teddy was actually on a soundtrack of one of those 90s movies.
Miguel: I don't remember which movie it was.
Christina: I think it was Juice?
Miguel: Maybe.
Christina: Maybe, but it was one of those 90s movies. So I think, like, she literally was on the soundtrack of 90s fine. Like, if it was Juice, that's 90s fine. We got Omar Epps, Tupac, all of the favorites. The other thing that I completely forgot about, because I think I always associated her with more of these kinds of songs is that she did the “what, what, what, what” part for Noreaga. That’s her!
Miguel: Oh, I did—I always thought that was Kelis. I just assumed it was Kelis for some reason.
Christina: It was Tammy Lucas.
Miguel: Oh, okay.
Christina: Yep. Which makes sense because she was working with The Neptunes.
Miguel: She was. I just assumed it was Kelis this whole time.
Christina: I just found that out while we were doing this.
Miguel: Yeah. That's funny.
Christina: I’m like, oh, that does sound like her and it makes sense because she doesn't usually sing like that.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: I guess because she's only singing one word.
Miguel: True.
Christina: But it's not as obvious.
Miguel: I'm going to have to listen to it again.
Christina: Now when you listen to it again, knowing that you'll hear it's her and not Kelis.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: [sings] “What what what what.”
Miguel: My favorite of hers is “1nce Again” because Tribe Called Quest, obviously.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Yeah. That's me.
Christina: So that's your favorite moment then?
Miguel: Yeah. For Tammy Lucas, that's my favorite moment is her on “1nce Again.”
Christina: Okay. Mine is the both versions of “Is It Good To You.”
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: To me, that's like, the soundtrack of the 90s fine and the lady hook singers. All right. What about you? Who do you have up next?
Miguel: Well, the way you would always bring up Tammy Lucas when we do things like this, I'm always talking about Vinia Mojica.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: Who is on De La songs, Tribe Called Quest, Pete Rock and CL Smooth. When it comes to her, I just like the way that she blends into the songs rather than bullying her way into it. Like you said, K-Ci does when he's doing background vocals.
Christina: His background vocals are foreground vocals.
Miguel: Yeah. So she just kind of blends into the track and doesn't overshadow the main artist, but you still know she's there.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: The best example I can think of is, unfortunately, it's on a Talib Kweli record, but it's “The Blast” with him and Hi-Tek.
Christina: It's also a Hi-Tek record.
Miguel: It is. It's a Talib and Hi-Tek record, but that is a perfect representation of the way she just kind of belts into the track when she's on it.
Christina: And the De La Soul “Saturday.”
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Or I mean, I call it “Saturdays,” but it's a longer title.
Miguel: “A Roller Skating Jam Called “Saturdays.””
Christina: Yes. Or just “Saturdays” if you're lazy like me.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: Yeah. She kind of like, just floats over the music with her voice.
Miguel: And she's on a couple of Tribe songs, on a couple of their albums as well. And like I said, that’s, that's my pick of the underrated singer of the 90s or hook singer, I should say, or background vocalist is “Miss Vinia Mojica” as Q-tip would say.
Christina: Yeah. I think my favorite is also “The Blast.”
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But you know, we've changed our opinions over…
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: About Talib over the years.
Miguel: I just can't do Talib Kweli in 2025. It has nothing to do with the music. I just think he's a horrible person.
Christina: We've seen some stuff on. Yeah. Just anyways, social media.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: He was doing a lot.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: Yeah. For me, I guess maybe because her role was more of like, adding to the music. I think for me, I don't remember her as much.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: She's more of like, what I would call a background singer. Like, her background was meant—is background and not foreground.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So just when I was looking through this list and stuff, I was like, oh yeah, okay, she's on the song. Or she was with artists that I don't listen to as often.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So she's not as memorable for me as some of the others, but she did definitely bring something to the songs that she was on though.
Miguel: Yeah. All right, who else you got?
Christina: Here's another powerhouse, technically background singer, LaToiya Williams.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: She definitely made her backgrounds more, or her hooks as a foreground part of the song.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So like, on “Lookin’ At You”[4] with Warren G. That's like, you know, and she just has a very like, unique voice. She has that old soul sort of like 70s funk.
Miguel: Yeah, because a lot of the songs that she had came out when she was young and she sounds like she's 50. She sounds like an older woman singing these songs.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And she's not.
Christina: And I think the style of her voice also makes sense that she was doing a lot of stuff with like, Snoop and Warren G because a lot of times they kind of pulled from that 70s Funkadelic and stuff too, so that really made sense. So the “Lookin’ At You” With Warren G, “Ballad of Jimmy Bones” on the, Snoop’s movie Bones, which I've never watched. And then…would you like to talk about what happened when you listened to her singing “My First Love?[5]”
Miguel: With Anthony Hamilton. Just a plate of collard greens and cornbread appeared out of nowhere. I pressed play on it. She came out and they started singing, and it was just a soul food dinner in front of me.
Christina: Yeah
Miguel: Just magically.
Christina: So her voice can stretch to sort of the cornbread and greens kind of old soul to like, the 70s style kind of funk. But she also did songs with like, Jay-Z and stuff as well. More like, different style of hip hop. And I found a live performance where she sang Pharrell's part in “Beautiful”[6] and that just changed the song.
Miguel: Yeah, it's completely different when she's singing it.
Christina: Yeah, like, the song, she just changed the mood of the song.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: So I would say that my favorite moment, I kind of jump back and forth between “The Ballad of Jimmy Bones” or “Fallen Star” because they're just two completely different songs.
Miguel: Yeah, for me, I go with Fallen Star only because the hook is funny to me. “You promised me Saturn, Venus and Mars and all I got was bullshit and a fallen star.”
Christina: Bullshit and a fallen star. Yes. Yeah, “you offered the world to me and all I got was bullshit and a fallen star.”
Miguel: “Venus, Saturn and Mars.”
Christina: Yeah, that's a good one too.
Miguel: Yeah, so that's the one I go with.
Christina: I guess it depends on my mood because that one's uptempo and “The Ballad of Jimmy Bones” is kind of melancholy.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I think, yeah, it depends on what am I in the mood for? But she's one of the, I think, like, she's one of those, the hook singers where, so, you know, sometimes when you hear them sing a full song, you're not used to it? You're like, oh, you're doing a verse.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Whereas with LaToiya, I found that the transition was easier from hearing her sing a hook to hearing her sing like, a full song.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like, I don't know how to describe it, but it just made sense with her doing both.
Miguel: So next up, I'm going to bring to the table, Jewell. Also known as the First Lady of Death Row Records, because she was, she was like, one of three or four singers that the Death Row crew would rotate in and out on their records. Her, Val Young, who we were talking about a couple of minutes ago and somebody whose name I cannot ever think of, but she was part of that mix too. But you know all the stuff that she's been on. She even goes back to some of Dre's production from the NWA days too, because she's on the Niggaz 4 Life album on “I’d Rather Fuck You.”
Christina: Yes. Which YouTube made me sign in to to listen.
Miguel: That's funny.
Christina: Or at least the one link that you sent me. You know, I refuse to sign in. So I was like, I know what this song sounds like. I don't need to…
Miguel: Right.
Christina: I'll just listen to something else.
Miguel: And then she's on “Dre Day,” the “Who Am I” by Snoop, “Just Dippin’.” That's probably my favorite song with her on it is on Snoop's album. And it's her and Snoop and Dr. Dre, “Just Dippin’.”
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Either that or “What Would U Do?” by Tha Dogg Pound.
Christina: I like “Dre Day,” because as folks like to say, she was singing like the rent was due. [mimics singing]
Miguel: And then just ends up, “yeah, yeah,” just out of breath.
Christina: Yeah, I'm done. She gave it her all.
Miguel: That's all I can give you.
Christina: That's why they put it right at the end.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: They're just like, let, let her close it out.
Miguel: Exactly. Oh, man. So I have one more before we go to another break.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: And it's someone whose career didn't go as far as other people did on this list. But she made an impact. Miss Shatasha Williams on the “Thuggish Ruggish Bone.” And she let us know who she was when she was shouting out everybody in Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, and was like, and me too. “Shatasha is definitely in the house.” She let it be known that I'm here too. So she's one of my favorites. I didn't even realize this was her on Scarface's “Mary Jane.” And that's one of my favorite Scarface songs too. But she did that as well.
Christina: Yeah, I didn't know that until you sent it to me. And I was like, oh, this is the same person. I think one of the funniest things about watching the “Thuggish Ruggish Bone” video[7] is already when I was watching it, how they're coming out of the house and then the camera just pans to her and she's just standing there. [sings] “Thuggish ruggish bone!” And someone in the comments was pretty much thinking the same thing I was. And they had said, “I still can't believe she just pulled up out of nowhere and laid down one of the greatest hooks of all time.” It's just funny the way she's just standing there, sanging. The camera just pans to her and she's just standing there, hollering.
Miguel: Like I said, that's called cinema.
Christina: Yes, cinema.
Miguel: Absolute cinema as Martin Scorsese meme[8] says.
Christina: Yeah. So she definitely let it be known.
Miguel: Yes. Well, go ahead.
Christina: I was just going to say even though they were Bone Thugs-N-Harmony, she was like, I'm going to sing though.
Miguel: Exactly. Like I mentioned, she didn't have the career that a lot of other people had. She did have a single called “Free.” It was a cover of Deniece Williams’, “Free.” But unfortunately, it came out like, within weeks of Eazy-E passing. So her career just fell off after he was gone.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: She was like, you know what? I'm just going to get out of the game. This ain't for me.
Christina: Yeah. I think what I noticed happened a lot when I was just reading up on some of these people is that talent isn't enough sometimes. Things just sort of like, happen.
Miguel: Yeah. Right place, right time.
Christina: Bad timing, bad relationships, record label stuff. A lot of that just sort of happens.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But we still know them.
Miguel: We do.
Christina: And they still left an impact.
Miguel: Yes. Which is what this episode is about.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: All right. So that's a good spot for us to take another break and we'll be right back.
[break]
Miguel: Hi, kids. Do you like fun?
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And bookmarking a bunch of articles you'll probably never read. We're starting a monthly newsletter called Liner Notes. We'll be sharing what we're watching, what we're listening to, throwback YouTube videos, updates on our upcoming projects, random shit you may have missed on the internet, you know, stuff like that. The link is in the show notes or you can go to toypodcast.com/newsletter. Do it, it's good for you.
Christina: It'll make your teeth whiter.
Miguel: And back to the show.
Miguel: Okay, we are back.
Christina: So in this segment, we're going to switch over to the background dancers.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: One of the things that made hip hop and R&B performances stand out in the 90s versus the later years, was the dancing.
Miguel: Yes. There was a lot of dancing. There was a lot of baggy clothes. There was a lot of sweat.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: There was even songs that had sweat in the title.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: “Gonna Make You Sweat.”
Christina: And as we have mentioned before, there's also a lot of songs that like, encourage dancing.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like, “go, go, go!”
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: And such.
Miguel: Definitely.
Christina: So what were some of your favorite videos from this era?
Miguel: Okay. Before I get into my favorite videos, I got some beef, because when I was looking up like some of the best dance videos of the 90s and whatnot, I came across this video and it was called “Top 10 Choreographed Music Videos of Each Year 1990 to 1999.” Here's their list[9].
1990, okay, I could see where they're going with this one, but there were other things that I'm like, this wasn't the best one. “Vogue” for Madonna. But here's the problem. In 1990, “You Can't Touch This” came out. “Poison” came out. “Escapade,” “Rhythm Nation,” “Alright,” all the Janet stuff. Paula Abdul was dancing with a goddamn cat in “Opposites Attract” and they went with Madonna for 1990. All right. Let's move on to '91. A year that had “Now That We Found Love” by Heavy D. “Iesha” by Another Bad Creation. They went with Marky Mark and the Funky Bunch. “Good Vibrations.”
Christina: No, no.
Miguel: And the songs that I'm talking about are just songs that I pulled from like, the end of year Billboard list. So there's tons of other songs and other videos that could have been better. 1992, I have no beef with this one. "Remember The Time" by Michael Jackson. That one, i got no beef with.
Christina: That one, I think most of us will agree with.
Miguel: Yeah. ’93, got no beef with that one either. Janet Jackson, “If.”
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: So I'm good with that one.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: ’94, a year that had “Creep,” “100% Pure Love” and “Anything” by SWV. They went with Salt-N-Pepa, “Whatta Man.”
Christina: I liked “Whatta Man.” I did like it, but i don't know.
Miguel: If we talkin dance though.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Like, it was choreographed, but it wasn't. oh, that shit is hard.
Christina: Yeah.Yeah.
Miguel: ’95, I'm cool with this. Michael and Janet, “Scream.” ’96, here's another problem. This is where it really falls off. Jamiroquai, “Virtual Insanity.” I don't know if you remember the video.
Christina: I do.
Miguel: But it's basically just Jay Kay walking around the room as furniture moves around.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: That was their choice for ’96.
Christina: See, the problem is they're not choosing these videos for the actual dancing. They're just choosing the popular songs.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Cause see, you notice the ones that we agree with are also just commercially popular artists.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Who happen to also have very good dancing.
Miguel: Well, this next one, Backstreet Boys, “Everybody,” 1997.
Christina: You know that move I hate! You know that move I hate so much. People who are listening can't see that I’m doing it.
Miguel: She is.
Christina: But I hate it so much.
Miguel: 1998, when Usher had “My Way” out. Even Will Smith and “Gettin’ Jiggy Wit It,” the dancers with him were dope. Aaliyah, “Are You That Somebody?”
Christina: That's all you have to say to me.
Miguel: Janet Jackson, “Together Again.”
Christina: Yes, that's another one.
Miguel: Even Mase with “Feels So Good,” he had some backup dancers. They went with “Hit Me Baby One More Time.”
Christina: [sighs]
Miguel: Yeah, yeah, that's the bullshit this video was on. In 1999, I don't even know this song, “Let Forever Be” by The Chemical Brothers.
Christina: I know I have heard of The Chemical Brothers.
Miguel: Yeah, I know The Chemical Brothers. I don't know this song or video. Even though people weren't dancing as hard in 1999, I'm sure this wasn't the best one.
Christina: 1999 Destiny's Child. They gotta have something in 1999.
Miguel: There you go. So yeah, that's the list that I had beef with. So now I’m going to give you some of my favorites that don't kind of match up with this list.
Christina: This list is probably the same people who thinks that all these dance challenges are really good.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: The ones that I always complain about that I see on TikTok.
Miguel: No, the person who made this list is the parents of the people who think that these dance challenges are good. And I'm going to link to it on the website so you guys can check it out.
Christina: Like I said, they're not looking at the dancing. They're just, this is a popular song that they like. That you can dance to.
Miguel: Exactly. Here are some of mine. I’m going to leave some off because I'm pretty sure you're going to choose them. But I'm going to go with some of my old school homies that I went to school with, The Boys, with “Crazy,” when they did the parody of like, Michael Jackson and Bobby Brown and all that. “You got me going crazy.” So I'm going with that.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Janet, we already talked about “If.” "Remember The Time" obviously, but i remember a podcast, I don't remember who it was. It either had to be It's The Real, A Waste Of Time or Cipha Sounds and Rosenberg, Juan Epstein. But they had a guest on who was talking about Chubb Rock's video and his dancer Hot Dog was performing. Yes, his name Hot Dog. so he's out there doing his thing and a gun falls out of his pants and slides across the floor. And i could not remember what podcast this was and i was like, you know what, let me try and figure out if i can see which video this could have been.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So I pull up the first song, “Treat ‘Em Right.”[10]
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: You can see the gun in his pants in the video.
Christina: I'm going to have to look this up.
Miguel: Yes, we will link to this as well. But there's several scenes where you can see the gun in his waistband. There's even a couple times where he's holding it in place so it doesn't fall out again, most likely.
Christina: There wasn't a little locker or something he could put this away?
Miguel: This song is all about positivity and treating people right and this man is strapped up doing some of the hardest dance moves ever. He's spinning, he's doing flips, he does that little lean that Michael Jackson does in “Smooth Criminal.” All of that with a gun in his waist.
Christina: Egregious.
Miguel: Yes, very. But my favorite videos are the MC Hammer videos from those days. “Let's Get It Started.” What's the other one? “Put Me In The Mix.” All the early stuff when he was wearing like, the linen suits and sweating through them in the videos. Those are my favorite.
Christina: Okay, that's a solid list.
Miguel: I think so.
Christina: Of course, I think your favorites are, some of them at least are a little older than mine.
Miguel: Yeah, well, that's why I left some off for you to talk about.
Christina: Okay, so for me, I think I probably like, some of the things that the earlier ones that kind of got me interested in dancing was obviously like, Michael Jackson, you know, “Beat It” and all that stuff, right? And, you know, back when they were doing like, prime time premieres of videos and stuff.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So those ones and like, even like Janet Jackson's early stuff, “Pleasure Principle,” Paula Abdul. But i think when it really started for me where it went from entertainment to like, I want to do this, was as I mentioned in the last episode Bell Biv Devoe’s, “Poison.” Yeah, that was like, major for me where I was like, I want to do this.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Not just like, I just like watching this. It's like, no, I'm going to rewind this video and I'm going to try to figure out how to do this. So it was “Poison” and just seeing like, The Fly Girls every week to on In Living Color and really that Bobby Brown, Bobby album era.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: All of those videos, “Humpin’ Around,” “That's The Way Love Is,” “Get Away,” all of that. Because I think, you know around this time I'm also getting a little older where I always say this is kind of the age where I'm now forming my own personality. That's probably why those ones impacted me more personally and that was when I started like, actually trying to do it myself being like, I want to be a Fly Girl.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: And i think i also really love that they had this like, pretty tomboy style. So it wasn't just the dancing. There was also like a style and a swagger that I really liked.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I loved that they had like, a baggy mechanic jumpsuit with combat boots. But then in the next scene, they're wearing a short dress with fish nets.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So it kind of like, combined sort of strong but sexy and it was cool and fun. So, you know, you'll get these hard masculine moves and then you'll get a body roll or a butterfly. So you can still be hard, you could be soft. And then of course obviously, Janet Jackson, that was kind of like, it was like, two styles of dancing. You had sort of this very highly trained Janet Jackson style of dancing and then there's sort of the looser street style dancing that we would see in like, Bell Biv Devoe and Bobby Brown's dancers and stuff.
Miguel: Yeah. So who were your favorite dancers from that era?
Christina: When I think about the era, I always kind of just go back to The Fly Girls because there was like, they had a name that was recognizable and it kind of just encompassed what i liked about really all of the dancers. Because even now as we were like, doing research on this and this kind of started from when I just saw that there was like, these little segments that were put together by Soul Train with, with, I Was A 90s Dancer.[11] I actually didn't realize that these dancers that I love so much were actually like, had their dance groups and troupes with actual names and stuff.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I think for me The Fly Girls just kind of like, encompassed all of them. Especially because a lot of these girls ended up— some of them were Fly Girls at some point too. So if I would say a group it always kind of goes back to saying them, which I sort of mentioned already, they left a big impact. But if I'm talking about like, specific people, we've mentioned her before Big Lez. She was just everywhere like, you got to the point where we recognize her silhouette in the Living Single opening.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: It's like, oh, that's Big Lez.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: You just you don't even have to see her. You just know her body.
Miguel: And looking back, wasn't that big.
Christina: No, she had a strong physique.
Miguel: Yes, but she wasn't big at all.
Christina: She was just strong. So definitely always like, Big Lez. You have to like, that time you just you have to include her. And Jossie Harris is also one that was kind of like, a standout because she was everywhere as well. But she was talking about this in her interview on the I Was A 90s Dancer segment where she just decided one day to just turn her head over and put her braids up in like, a high ponytail and she was like, this is my look.
Miguel: Yeah, and that's what it was.
Christina: Yeah, because then just like Big Lez, you know her silhouette. You know Jossie by that hair.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And i think she was also memorable not only because she was like, a good dancer, great dancer, but she often sort of played like, the leading lady.
Miguel: True.
Christina: So she would get a little more camera time because she was like, with the main artist. So it would always be like, there's the girl with the braids again.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: And then like, she danced with everybody.
Miguel: Yes, she doubled down and got Michael and Janet.
Christina: Yes, so like, where do I go from here?
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Time to move on, which is I think that's pretty much what she said. She got to a point where she was like, I think I’ve gone as high as I can go, time to do something else. So those two are the ones I can sort of think of in terms of just like, individual dancers that I remembered, but a lot of the other ones were, as I'm saying now, I know that they were like, actual groups. Before i thought it was just like, oh, I just keep seeing the same people over and over again. But it's like, no, there's a reason why I'm seeing these four girls together all the time.
Miguel: Together all the time.
Christina: So I would say the other one is the Mecca Dancers, which were as I said, I loved the Bobby album era. So these were the girls that were in all of those videos.
So definitely them, were some of my favorites.
Miguel: I am going to go with and taking it back to 1986, ’87, Oaktown’s .357 and Ace Juice, which was the dude dancing for MC Hammer. They were just dancing hard in low budget videos. They're dancing under the freeway overpass. You can tell that there was no budget for wardrobe because early in the video Hammer’s dry. By the end of the video, you can see a sweat ring in his silk shirt. So I'm going back to the old school days because if you watch the “Let's Get It Started” video, looks like it was filmed on a potato. But once the money got into play and he got his deal, they remade it like, a live concert version[12] of it and it's big budget. They got costumes, there's pyro, there's all sorts of shit. But they're still dancing on point.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: The other one I'm going to go with and again, I didn't know they had a name until like, last year, but BBD’s dancers, Str8 Ahead, they are probably my favorite. And for me at least, all these other people were like, solo artists. So they would still be in the front. Whereas with BBD, it was three of them. So sometimes in the videos and performances, they would literally fall back and get behind the girls and let them do their thing.
Christina: So they just became like, a dance troupe instead of... These are our background dancers.
Miguel: Right. It was like, all seven of us are Bell Biv Devoe.
Christina: I think that makes sense that they ended up dancing that way too. Because when I was watching their I Was A 90s Dancer segment, they talked about how BBD kind of treated them like their little sisters.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I think that would influence how they would choreograph the dances as well as like we're all together.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And also them just being background dancers. Like, BBD are background dancers too.
Miguel: So they know this.
Christina: Yeah. And I think the other thing too is they were just talking about how they bought their own clothes. They created their own style. They would buy stuff for the guys. Like, they would show up wearing whatever and then BBD would be like, I want those boots too. So I think what makes them great, Str8 Ahead, is they were not only background dancers but they crafted the image. They influenced the style. They you know did more than just dance in the background. Like, they were actually part of creating the look and the feel.
Miguel: Yeah. I saw a video when they performed on Soul Train and Don Cornelius asked them about what they were wearing and Michael Bivins was like, yeah, the girls hooked all this up. They went and bought this it such and such.
Christina: Yeah. Well, I thought that was pretty pretty interesting with this group is how much of a hand they had in doing more than just the dancing.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Did you watch their I Was A 90s Dancer?
Miguel: I did.
Christina: The part where they were talking about how they met Brooke Payne and he was like just really curt with them.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Dancing their asses off and he was just like, “that's the routine.”
Miguel: And walked out.
Christina: Yeah. I just want to fix one thing and then that's it.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So the fact that like, the part that impacted us so much of course the song too but the dancing was so important, like, that's their choreo.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So they really played a big part in sort of the whole BBD, “Poison…”
Miguel: Phenomenon.
Christina: Phenomenon. Yes.
So we talked about some of our favorite dance groups. But which artist would you say incorporated dance into their performances the best?
Miguel: This one was really hard for me and even sitting here thinking about it. I don't know if I can give a good answer but I'm going to try.
Christina: Ok.
Miguel: We just talked about BBD and how they would fall back and let the girls get up front and do their thing. But also Hammer, they were just non-stop. Like, him and his dancers just never stopped going.
Christina: And sometimes there would be so many of them.
Miguel: There would be like 20 of them.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: But even in the early days when it was just the three girls and Ace Juice and it was just the five of them, they went hard. And then also you have Bobby Brown and stuff that he was doing. So it's really hard for me to choose who would incorporate dance the best but just off the top of my head, throwing off a stream of consciousness like I'm doing right now. I'm going to go with Hammer.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: That's the one that I'm going to choose.
Christina: Solid choice. I didn't even make an attempt to pick one person. I just said Bobby Brown, BBD, Janet Jackson. That was an easy question for me. Now if you made me pick one, that would be harder. But I saw the question and I'm like, Bobby Brown, Bell Biv Devoe, Janet Jackson. That's the list.
Miguel: Yeah. And then you got Michael over here. You got this one and that one, TLC. There was a lot.
Christina: Yeah, there were a lot of other ones. But I think a lot of them were probably influenced by these ones. Or like you said, just kind of stream of consciousness. First thing that pops into your head. That's it.
Miguel: Yeah, I agree. That's a solid list from you as well.
Christina: And you know what's funny is in terms of background dancers, I just realized I didn’t really care for the male dancers that much. It was always the women that I was watching for.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Like, there were good male background dancers, but not enough for me to like, remember them.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Per se.
Miguel: There would be like one or two that I— even thinking about now, just remember from different videos, but I have no idea who their names are.
Christina: Yeah, I—
Miguel: The only male dancers I can remember are like, Hot Dog from Chubb Rock.
Christina: Right. The Boyz, or like, Heavy D &The Boyz.
Miguel: Well, those Boyz. I thought you meant-
Christina: Yeah, those Boyz.
Miguel: The Boys, The Boys.
Christina: Not the other Boys. Not your homies.
Miguel: Yeah, because they had a name. Like, Big Daddy Kane had Scoop Lover and Scrap Lover.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So the ones that had a name-
Christina: That were like, basically part of the group.
Miguel: Those are the ones that I remember, but there's a few who I have no idea who they are that were just in a lot of videos.
Christina: I think what made me realize that I just didn't pay attention to the men that much was, aside from if they were like, the actual artists, like, Bobby or Bell Biv DeVoe, was I was watching the “Humpin’ Around” video. I'm watching the girls and then I'm like, oh, there's two dudes on the stage. It is not like I never saw them before, but it's almost like I saw them again for the first time. Because I was just like, oh, I don't even pay attention to those two. It was just like, oh yeah, there's a couple of men on the stage and I just like, then I started to watch them and I'm like, see, this is why I don't pay attention to them, because the girls are doing a lot more.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: They were just there to like, I don't know, balance it out a little, I guess.
Miguel: And in one of these, I Was A 90s Dancer, actually a couple of them. All of the girls mentioned like, losing dance contests to a group called GTI, who is The Pharcyde.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: And mentioning how Imani and Bootie Brown were in the "Remember The Time" video as well. So it's the ones who have names are the ones that I remember. Like, I don't remember The Pharcyde dancing on Soul Train, but apparently they were Soul Train dancers too.
Christina: Well, just watching all these different dance groups talking about their experiences then, it seems like Rosie Perez and The Pharcyde were always—
Miguel: In the mix somehow.
Christina: Yeah. Like, all of them mentioned both of them.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: For the most part.
Miguel: All right, you got anything else you want to add before we get out of here?
Christina: If you're looking for some like, dance inspiration, don't watch these horrible challenges that are coming out now. Because all they're doing is ruining the legacy of these songs. Like, I'm disgusted. Like, I told you I was disgusted last time when I stumbled onto this BBD challenge. But after watching this, I've stumbled into more quote unquote challenges of all these songs and they're terrible. They make me upset.
Miguel: What you need to do is if you see anything with challenge in the title—
Christina: Just ignore it.
Miguel: Just scroll past it.
Christina: Like, if it says BBD challenge, Janet Jackson challenge, Fly Girls, just go to the original. Because whatever they're doing is not even like, an homage. It's just something else.
Miguel: Yeah. All right. So I think that's a good place for us to wrap up. Thank you again for listening to They Reminisce Over You. We try to do this every two weeks. So if you come back here two weeks from now, we'll have something else for you. Or if you're listening to this after we release it, just come back. We also have a newsletter called Liner Notes. Comes out once a month, usually within the first week of the month, the days are differing. Depends on what day the first or the third falls on. It's free. You can check it out at troypodcast.com slash Liner Notes, Make sure you sign up for that.
Christina: Slash newsletter.
Miguel: Yes, it is.
Christina: It's called Liner Notes.
Miguel: It's called Liner Notes, but it's troy podcast slash newsletter.
Christina: troypodcast.com/newsletter. We need to get you some food.
Miguel: No. See, I always freestyle this part.
Christina: OK.
Miguel: So I need to start writing it down.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: So I don't miss things.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: We'll be putting together a playlist of all the songs and music that we talked about. We'll be putting one on YouTube as well[13]. So make sure to check that out because you need to see these dances.
Christina: You definitely need to see this
Miguel: And not just listen to the music. You can do that, too, but you need to watch the videos.
Christina: You can listen to the music if you already know the routine.
Miguel: Yeah. And then you can do some chair dancing at work after you're done listening to this episode. We also have a store where you can buy some merch. It's not just podcast merch, it's pop culture merch, all sorts of fun shit. They're called Nuthin But A Tee Thang, teethang.com. teethang.com is where you can get t-shirts, hoodies, hats, mugs.
Christina: A Teddy's Jam t-shirt that I designed.
Miguel: Yes, you can get a Teddy's Jam t-shirt. I'll post that on the website as well and on Instagram. So you can look at it, go get yourself a Teddy's Jam t-shirt.
Christina: Or something else.
Miguel: Or something else. There's tons of stuff to choose from. Just go out and buy yourself something nice for the springtime. That's all I got. This is a good place for us to wrap up because we're both hungry. Yeah, that's it.
Christina: That's it.
Miguel: Talk to you guys again in two weeks.
Christina: Bye.
[Jewell singing] Yeah, yeah.