Episode Summary
Lucy Pearl came in fast and hot like a comet, and kinda burned out like one too. But in that brief moment in time, Raphael Saadiq from Tony, Toni, Toné, Dawn Robinson from En Vogue and Ali Shaheed Muhammad from A Tribe Called Quest came together to give us one of the greatest R&B albums ever, and that’s what we’re digging into in this episode.
Transcript
Christina: Welcome back to They Reminisce Over You, a podcast that takes a nostalgic look back at the best in music, movies and TV from the 80s, 90s and early 2000s. I'm Christina.
Miguel: And I'm Miguel. Today, we are gonna be talking about a group that came in hot and they disappeared just as fast. We're talking about Lucy Pearl, Raphael Saadiq, Dawn Robinson, and Ali Shaheed Muhammad. So, let's just get into it. You ready?
Christina: Let's do it. So, before we get into the music, we need to talk about who Lucy Pearl is. Well, you mentioned their names.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: But we'll talk a little bit more and how they ended up here.
Miguel: Yeah. So, Lucy Pearl consists of, like I said, Raphael Saadiq from Tony! Toni! Toné!, Dawn Robinson—
Christina: Which Tony was he?
Miguel: He was Tony.
Christina: Tony with a Y?
Miguel: I can't tell you which one he was in that sense, but he was Tony.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Dawn Robinson from En Vogue and Ali Shaheed Muhammad, producer and DJ from A Tribe Called Quest. Originally, it was supposed to be D'Angelo in the Dawn Robinson spot.
Christina: Yeah, I didn't know that until you just told me this yesterday, today? That would have been a very different album.
Miguel: It would have. I remember when Ali used to have a podcast on NPR, he was a guest on his own podcast.[1] So he was being interviewed by his co-host Frannie, and he brought up the fact that Lucy Pearl was supposed to have D'Angelo in it. I'm just going to read you a quote.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: From Ali. “We would always just hang out and make music together. But then Dee was working on the Voodoo album, and Saadiq got real serious about it. Then he called me being real serious and said, ‘Okay, listen, you ready?’ He never talked to me that way. He was like, ‘Ali Shaheed Muhammad from A Tribe Called Quest, Raphael Saadiq from Tony! Toni! Toné!.’ And then he held, there was this pause, and he was like, ‘Dawn Robinson from En Vogue.’” That was his quote.
He said that he had never felt so serious about something with Raphael before, because like he said, they would just hang out and jam and make music, the three of them, with D'Angelo. But when he hit him with this Dawn Robinson idea, he was like, you know what? This could work. So they all went out to California. They were supposed to hang out with her for a day just to discuss things, get some lunch and whatnot, and they ended up recording a song.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: And he said a one-week trip ended up being a four-month stay, and that's when they recorded the album.
Christina: So that was a quick turnaround.
Miguel: It was, to pivot from D'Angelo to Dawn Robinson to recording an album.
Christina: To recording an album.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: I mean, I'm sure with D'Angelo, obviously that probably would have been an amazing album, but it wouldn't have been this.
Miguel: Yeah. There are some songs on the album that you could see he could fit on, but he obviously couldn't do “Don't Mess With My Man.”
Christina: No.
Miguel: Or “Dance Tonight.” I don't see him—
Christina: Those are not D’Angelo songs.
Miguel: doing those types of songs.
Christina:Who knows? Maybe this collab would have brought that out.
Miguel: Maybe, but I don't see it. Just knowing what we know about D'Angelo.
Christina: “Lady” is as up-tempo as we get.
Miguel: And the music he was making at that time, I don't see him doing “You,” for example.
Christina: Yeah. So since we had three major players, even though it wasn't D'Angelo, Dawn Robinson was still a major player, from three different corners of urban music. How would that translate to the music? So we're going to get into that after we take a quick break.
[Break]
Miguel: Hi, kids. Do you like fun?
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: We're starting a month of newsletter called Liner Notes. We'll be sharing what we're watching, what we're listening to, throwback YouTube videos, updates on our upcoming projects, random shit you may have missed on the Internet, stuff like that.
The link is in the show notes or you can go to troypodcast.com/newsletter. Do it. It's good for you.
Christina: It'll make your teeth whiter.
Miguel: And back to the show.
[Break Ends]
Miguel: Okay, we are back.
Christina: So how do you think this album fit into the sound of R&B at the time? So this album was released in 2000.
Miguel: Yes. This landed squarely in the peak of Neo Soul. But at the same time, it kind of pulled together everything that was hot at the time, but not in a 1999, 2000 kind of way with like, Timberland and Rodney Jerkins.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: It had like the grown and sexy moments on “Dance Tonight.” You got the hip hop elements with Snoop and Q-Tip on “You.” And then you got some danceable R&B with “Don't Mess With My Man.” So it was basically everything that R&B was doing at that time, but it was more live instrumentation more than the digital sounds of, like I said, Rodney Jerkins and Timberland.
Christina: Which is probably because of Raphael Saadiq.
Miguel: Yeah. Him and Ali were in that lane at that time.
Christina: Well, the Billboard No.1 albums in 2000 in the R&B/Hip-Hop category. Since it's R&B and hip hop, I just ignored all the rap albums.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: So the R&B albums that were Billboard No.1 in 2000 was Voodoo D'Angelo, which is why he wasn't part of the group, he was a little busy. J.E. Heartbreak, Jagged Edge. My Name Is Joe. Well, you can figure out who that is.
Miguel: Dirty mackin’ Joe.
Christina: Yes, dirty mackin’ Joe got No.1 album. And "TP-2.com" by you know who.
Miguel: We know.
Christina: Yep. And The Heat by Tony Braxton. So those were the No.1s, but there was some other notable albums. Mama's Gun, Who Is Jill Scott?, which you were saying we were in the throes of Neo Soul.
Miguel: Yes.
Christina: Mya, Fear of Flying. Another dirty mack was up there, Carl Thomas. And then also En Vogue with the new third member had an album that year and Tamia also had another album. So as you were saying, like what was out at the time, they kind of just encompassed all of it. And I guess that comes from the three of them being from these different corners of urban music.
So they found a way to kind of mesh it all together.
Miguel: Yeah, because you have the pop-ish R&B from Dawn, the 70s soul inspired from Raphael, and then obviously the hip hop from Ali, even though he was transitioning towards doing R&B production at this time, it was still hip hop based.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: So what stood out to you the most when you first heard this album?
Christina: Well, I think the main thing is how they were able to merge the different styles. And they basically told us this in the very first song.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: Which was “Lucy Pearl's Way.” And it was just like, a medley of their songs pretty much.
Miguel: Yeah. Like, this is what you know us from.
Christina: Yeah. But we're gonna put it together as one song.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So kind of like, here's a little preview of what this is gonna sound like. They had Raphael Saadiq's “Ask Of You,” En Vogue's “Don't Let Go” and “Hold On,” and then A Tribe Called Quest's “Electric Relaxation” and a little bit of “Oh My God.” And it was just kind of all mixed in seamlessly.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So if you had any questions of like, how is this gonna work? They showed us right away. And also, it kind of feels like they were like, you know who we are.
Miguel: Basically.
Christina: Here are some of our hits.
Miguel: “You know what it is,” as Jermaine Dupri likes to say.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Yeah, I was thinking the same because the production from Ali and Raphael, they had started to work together a lot after they worked on the Voodoo album, not Voodoo, but Brown Sugar album. Like I said, they were doing a lot of things together and just hanging out and chilling and making music. That worked with her vocals, even though she was known for these big booming pop songs.
Christina: Right
Miguel: And when Raphael sings, he's a little more laid back and mellow, but it worked well together.
Christina: Yeah. And it seemed like it gave her a chance to kind of play with a different sound as well, being outside of this sort of pop R&B girl group.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Like, even her look was different and just like, it allowed her to kind of be on different types of songs.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: It wasn't “Don't Let Go (Love)” or anything like that.
Miguel: Yeah, we didn't get any of those. Although “Hollywood” was kind of Sly Stone.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: Let's add some rock elements like En Vogue used to do.
Christina: Yeah, that's true. I forgot about “Free Your Mind.”
Miguel: Is there an album cut you think that should have been a single?
Christina: I really like “Trippin’” and “Good Love” could have been singles. I like “LaLa” as well, but it also sounds similar to “Dance Tonight.”
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So it's kind of like you already have “Dance Tonight,” but maybe it could have been a single to just kind of a continuation. Like, hey, you like that song, maybe you like this one.
Miguel: Let's go ahead and jam to this one.
Christina: But I think “Trippin’” is a little bit of a different sound from the singles that they did have. And I just like “Good Love” is one of the ballads.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: What about you?
Miguel: I think the premise of “Can't Stand Your Mother” is just silly enough. And the lyrics are just catchy enough for it to be a single. I understand why they didn't do it, but I think they could have gotten away with releasing that as a single. Because like I said, it's just silly enough, but it's also a little bit serious.
Christina: Maybe as like, the fifth single, when you've already heard all the other ones.
Miguel: Once you've gotten all the good stuff out of your system, like here, let's throw this one out to the people.
Christina: Do you think the singles hold up today?
Miguel: I think so. Just because of like, what I mentioned earlier, it wasn't like Rodney Jerkins and Timbaland. Like, you listen to a lot of their stuff from that era, tt sounds like 2000, 2001.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: Whereas this one really doesn't.
Christina: Well, just a reminder, in case you forgot, the singles were “Dance Tonight,” “Don't Mess With My Man,” “Without You” and “You,” featuring Snoop.
Miguel: Yeah, a lot of stuff, it was sounding like robots glitching at times.
Christina: Futuristic.
Miguel: It's very futuristic. Everybody was wearing shiny suits in the videos and whatnot. And this has a lot of instrumentation, live instrumentation. And they were going with, like we've been talking about the Neo Soul. So there was a lot of browns and muted colors and earth tones.
Christina: Uh huh.
Miguel: So I think that kind of separates it from everything else that was coming out around that time, other than the Neo Soul stuff.
Christina: But then it separated itself from Neo Soul because it mixed in elements of hip hop and pop and stuff. It wasn't as serious as Neo Soul could be sometimes.
Miguel: It was still fun.
Christina: It was ankh free.
Miguel: Yes. It was. So which song do you think has aged the best? And do you think that any of them do sound like the year 2000?
Christina: I feel like the slower songs age the best just because, I don't know, ballads just are ballads. Whereas the more up-tempo songs like “Dance Tonight” does have a specific sound.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: I do think it sounds very 2000s, but I don't necessarily think it's aged badly, though.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Especially because the trends are kind of coming back around, that, you know, the current artists are trying to sort of bring back the 90s and 2000s sounds, that I think it's just old enough to come back around anyway.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: So, yeah, I do think it does sound 2000s, but I don't think it sounds old, if that makes any sense.
Miguel: That sounds right.
Christina: So, would you say this is a no skip album?
Miguel: Yes and no, because there are two songs that I don't like as much as the other ones, but because they're spread out so far on the album, I can just let the whole album play without interrupting the flow of the album. And they're not like, bad songs that you can't listen to at all, or it's un-listenable. I just don't really pay attention that much when it's on, but they still fit in within the scope of the album. And it's not out of place, so yes, it is.
Christina: Would you like to say what those two songs are?
Miguel: I am not. I'm gonna keep it to myself.
Christina: Okay. In that case.
Miguel: I don't want to ruin it for you or the people listening.
Christina: Well, I have the same opinion, where there's a couple songs I don't like either, and if you ain't saying, I ain't saying. You're just gonna have to guess. So yeah, but again, it's not enough. Like, maybe if I'm close to the interface, I might skip it.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: But if it's just playing and I'm just like, whatever, it's fine too.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: But those certain songs, I'm not gonna go to it.
Miguel: Exactly. Yeah, the songs that I'm not a fan of, I'm never gonna listen to on their own.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: I'll put it that way.
Christina: So I'm comfortable putting it in the no skip category, technically, even though I don't love every song.
Miguel: Same.
Christina: Because, well, as you were saying, it matches what they were trying to do, I think.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: It's still good musicianship, even if it's not like my favorite song.
Miguel: You're like, “ugh, crust.”[2]
Christina: Yes. Well, you're gonna have to link to that reference.
Miguel: Yeah. Just in case people don't know, I will put a link on the website.
Christina: So now that we've kind of mentioned the songs we didn't like without the titles, let's talk about if you had to introduce someone to Lucy Pearl with one song. Which one would it be and why?
Miguel: Oh, man. So the easy answers would be the singles, like “Dance Tonight,” “Don't Mess With My Man.” But since we've already mentioned it, I'm going to say “Lucy Pearl's Way” because, like you said, it's a mashup of their careers up to that point. It's like, this is who we are, this is where we come from, and this is what you're going to get on this album. So, that's going to be my answer.
Christina: I thought the same thing at first. I was like, you know, “Dance Tonight” is too easy of an answer. It was the first single, and I was going to say “Lucy Pearl's Way” as well. But to me, that's more of a highlight of their careers up to that point, not like, necessarily, this is a Lucy Pearl song.
Miguel: I see it. I see what you're saying.
Christina: This is like, this is what we're going to give you.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: So I kind of cheated, I picked two songs.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: I chose “Good Love” for like, a slower, ballad type song and “LaLa” for up tempo.
Miguel: Okay. “Good Love” is the first song that they recorded.
Christina: Oh.
Miguel: The day that they had this lunch that turned into a recording session.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: “Good Love” was the one.
Christina: And that song has Dawn and Raphael vocals on it because there are some songs where one or the other sings a little bit more.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And I believe that one is pretty equal. So it's kind of like, you know, everybody gets a little bit.
Miguel: Right. So what are your favorite moments from the album?
Christina: Well, similar to what you had said earlier, I chose “Can't Stand Your Mother” as my favorite moment because I don't think it should have been a single. That's definitely something for the fans, an album cut.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: Because it's catchy, but it's silly.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And at the same time, that's one aspect of a relationship you don't really hear songs about.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: Even though he said trying to be your friend, you know what he means when he said trying to be your friend.
Miguel: Exactly.
Christina: He ain't trying to be your friend. He wants to be your friend.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: [Singing] “I can't, can't stand your mother.”
Miguel: Yeah, like I said, the premise is just silly.
Christina: The only thing I can remember in terms of anyone referencing, you know, not liking their partner's friend is, I mean, partner's mother is the Method Man video for “All I Need.” At the beginning, if you remember, he's chilling in bed with his girlfriend and her mom comes in and starts screaming at him for being a lazy ass and whatnot while he's getting sent out to go get her some thang-thangs, aka tampons.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But I can't say I know of any songs that talk about that other than Lucy Pearl's. Maybe a mention here or there, but not like the sole focus of the song.
Miguel: “Ms. Jackson.”
Christina: Oh, well, they're not saying they can't stand her, though.
Miguel: It's not that I can't stand her, but she needs to mind her business. So that's one.
Christina: Yeah, that's true.
Miguel: I'm going to look it up right now, as a matter of fact.
Christina: What is it? [Singing] “Sorry, Ms. Jackson."
Miguel: Songs.
Christina: I'm kind of replaying the lyrics in my head.
Miguel: About hating mothers.
Christina: I don't know what you're going to come up with that search.
Miguel: Yeah, a lot of these are like, I hate my mom.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: Like “Cleaning Out My Closet” by Eminem and Ice-T and Body Count got “Mama's Gotta Die Tonight.”
Christina: Yikes!
Miguel: So yeah, this search didn't work the way I thought it would.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: So we can just move on.
Christina: Yeah. But this one, even though it's called I “Can't Stand Your Mother,” is not as serious as Eminem.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: It's just like she's a busybody. She's annoying.
Miguel: Yeah. So for my favorite moments, I can't speak for any other cities, “You” is an LA classic. The elbows go up and people start walking both the B's and the C's. People start roller skating. So it's a DJ BattleCat production and it's just very West Coast. So that's probably my top moment on the album.
Christina: Your biased favorite moment.
Miguel: Not gonna lie, I'm biased. It's an LA classic and it will always be a LA classic. But the other one, because I'm a huge Tony! Toni! Toné! fan, and this one sounds a lot like a Tony! Toni! Toné! song is “Without You.” So those two would be my favorite moments on the album.
Christina: Okay. Respectable.
Miguel: I think so.
Christina: I don't disagree.
Miguel: Okay. So with this being just a one album run, since they didn't get to do more songs because Joi left, not Joi, Dawn left the group and really didn't perform many shows.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: She was only there for a couple of weeks to perform shows and was replaced by Joi. Do you think this being a one-off adds to the greatness or a missed opportunity for more music from them?
Christina: I'm going to say, I feel like a little bit of both.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: Because on one hand, it's one of my favorite albums.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And it being one album, there's no chance of being like, ugh, they shouldn't have released that second album. There was no chance of tarnishing what they made.
Miguel: Right.
Christina: But at the same time, would they have made a terrible second album? Probably not.
Miguel: Yeah, I don't think so.
Christina: So it does, in that sense, feel a bit of a missed opportunity because it's like, oh, I wouldn't have minded having another one.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: And I remember when I saw that they, you know, I replaced her with Joi. I was like, you know what? That could work too. So I think even just not putting out maybe another album with Joi, that could have been an option.I don't know if she had other obligations or if there were other reasons why they decided not to like just replace her officially, I guess, with Joi.
Miguel: Well, I've seen Raphael say that he originally envisioned this as being a one time thing.
Christina: Okay.
Miguel: But I don't believe him because why replace her with Joi?
Christina: Right.
Miguel: If this was only going to be a one time thing.
Christina: Yeah. Was it, the replacement with Joi, was it just more to kind of fulfill the tour obligations and whatnot? Or was that?
Miguel: Yeah, but they did like, go all the way until 2001.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: So they continue to do shows outside of like, promoting the album.
Miguel: So I don't think they would have gone through the effort of doing that if it was just supposed to be a one-off.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: But in my mind, and I've mentioned this before on the pod that in an alternate universe, Teedra Moses is the third member of Lucy Pearl.
Christina: Yes.
Miguel: It ain't gonna happen.
Christina: You know, I would have loved that.
Miguel: I would like to see it happen.
Christina: And they can't bring D'Angelo back because now the sound would just be completely different.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: So I think Teedra Moses would work. But like I said, in an alternate universe, they are four or five albums deep with that lineup.
Christina: Right.
Miguel: But over here in the real world, it's too late for them to obviously go back because they have personal issues with each other, at least with Dawn and Raphael.
Christina: Yeah. That ain't going to happen. That’s definitely not going to happen.
Miguel: It's not going to happen.
Christina: We won't go into it on the pod, but if you want some messy drama, look it up.
Miguel: Exactly. So I think we can just hold it as it is as a great album. Like I mentioned in the opening, they came in hot like a comet. They did what they had to do and they burned out.
Christina: Yeah.
Miguel: So I'm just going to leave it as it is.
Christina: Yeah. I mean, as much as I do think it was a bit of a missed opportunity, I'm not really like, that sad. If that makes any sense that a second album never happened. It's kind of off topic, but it's kind of like, how I feel about Rihanna not releasing another album since Anti, even though she keeps pretending she's working on something. Because I loved Anti so much that it's just like, you know what? Maybe that's just it. She's got all these other things to do. And you know what? That was a good note to end on.
Miguel: Yeah, if this is it, this is it.
Christina: Maybe this is it too. This is a great album. We can just leave it at that.
Miguel: Yeah, I agree.
Christina: So I'm going to ask you this time.
Miguel: Okay.
Christina: Is there anything else you want to add?
Miguel: Anything else I want to add? Nothing too important.
Christina: Okay. What about something unimportant?
Miguel: But if you haven't listened to the album in a while, I suggest you go listen to it. It holds up very well. It's 25 years old, but it's still a good play. It's very entertaining, and like I said, it doesn't sound like robots glitching, like a lot of stuff from that era. It's good, solid R&B live instrumentation, good vocals, great songs. So go ahead and check it out.
Christina: And it’s good vibes.
Miguel: What did you say?
Christina: I said the album is just good vibes.
Miguel: Yeah.
Christina: It works for a lot of different situations.
Miguel: It does.
Christina: Barbecue, cleaning the house, working, hanging out with your friends. Like, you can just put this album on to pretty much anything.
Miguel: Exactly. So that's what I suggest. This weekend, you go out and listen to this album and then come back and tell us about it. Tell us how you felt.
Christina: All right.
Miguel: So I guess this is a good spot for us to wrap this up. Another short, quick episode. We got in, we got out, we talked about some Lucy Pearl and the great album, self-titled album. So yeah, I think we did it.
Christina: Short and sweet.
Miguel: Yep. All right. Thank you again for listening to They Reminisce Over You. We try to do this every two weeks, so come back and join us here. Two weeks from when you're listening to this right now. Also, you can check out our store, Tee Thang. Nuthin’ But a Tee Thang is our store. We have t-shirts, hats, buttons, stickers, all sorts of good stuff. So go ahead and check that out. teethang.com. T-E-E-T-H-A-N-G .com
We also have a newsletter called Liner Notes. It comes out once a month, usually around the first three or four days of the month, depending on what the day lands on.
Christina: First week.
Miguel: First week of the month. It's free. It doesn't cost you anything. You can check it out. It's what we're listening to, what we're watching, what we're reading, suggestions, all sorts of good stuff like that. It's fun. It's funny. It's entertaining. So go ahead and sign up for that.
Christina: It's probably more fun than your other e-mails.
Miguel: I promise you that. If you don't like it, I will give your money back. So that's at troypodcast.com/newsletter. That's really all we have for this episode. We'll be back in your ear holes in a couple of weeks. And yeah, listen to Lucy Pearl.
Christina: And T.R.O.Y. Podcast.
Miguel: And T.R.O.Y. Podcast. Tell a friend, tell a family member, share the links, let everybody know about us and all that good stuff. And we'll be back in your ear holes in a couple of weeks.
Christina: You could share it with that one cool coworker that you have.
Miguel: Yes, exactly. All right, we out.
Christina: Bye.
Miguel: Bye.